[NL20-NL50] SH NL50 zoom AA 3bet pot OOP deep

    • dooleslovs
      dooleslovs
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 481
      PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $137.07 (VPIP: 23.20, PFR: 18.78, 3Bet Preflop: 6.58, Hands: 186)
      SB: $65.52 (VPIP: 17.24, PFR: 1.15, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 90)
      Hero (BB): $175.84
      UTG: $96.24 (VPIP: 22.64, PFR: 18.85, 3Bet Preflop: 7.99, Hands: 837)
      MP: $75.31 (VPIP: 13.59, PFR: 7.77, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 105)
      CO: $54.24 (VPIP: 21.93, PFR: 18.26, 3Bet Preflop: 7.77, Hands: 974)

      SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has A:spade: A:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.50, fold, Hero raises to $4.75, BTN calls $3.25

      Flop: ($9.75, 2 players) A:club: 2:club: 4:heart:
      Hero bets $6.50, BTN calls $6.50

      Turn: ($22.75, 2 players) T:club:
      Hero bets $15.00, BTN raises to $46.04, Hero ??

      Vilian looks like a reg, fold to 3bet 3/6, fold to cbet 3bet pot 0/2, wts 27, w@sd 83.

      If I call T, what plan on blank R?
  • 9 replies
    • pokerferrer
      pokerferrer
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 6,347
      Wow, really hard. Since we are deep. I think we have to fold here.

      Firstly I didn't pay attention to stacksizes. In 100bb it is still tough decision actually. I think in 100bb I would always push.
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      I'm not used to Zoom player ranges but still I must say that there is no way I would fold this hand 100BB deep.

      Playing 250+BB deep is really, really tough. Villain's aggression tendencies could be helpful.

      If I was at the table and had to make a decision I think I would have just shipped it- we could be still ahead and worse could call (lower sets basically) plus we have ten outs if we are behind and all that. But that's just fishy me and I hate folding topestestest sets. I think it would be better to call villains raise and c/f to a blank river shove as I don't expect an average NL50 reg to be making this play without the nuts this deep.

      Damn, this hand is sick! That's why I don't like playing this deep. I'm anxious to see what the handjudge will have to say.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      100bb is an easy reshove, we beat AT and TT.

      For 250bb I still don't see how we can fold. I think river play is extremely tricky on a blank - Clearly we should fold on a 4 flush board, and we should stack off on a pairing River.

      1) If I include all sets, turn is a really easy call.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com
      Board: Ac2c4hTc
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 60.03% 60.03% 0.00% { AdAs }
      MP3 39.97% 39.97% 0.00% { TT, 44, 22, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc, 9c8c, 9c7c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 6c5c }

      2) Removing 44/22

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com
      Board: Ac2c4hTc
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 43.18% 43.18% 0.00% { AdAs }
      MP3 56.82% 56.82% 0.00% { TT, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc, 9c8c, 9c7c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 6c5c }

      3) All sets and many flushes

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com
      Board: Ac2c4hTc7d
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 52.94% 52.94% 0.00% { AdAs }
      MP3 47.06% 47.06% 0.00% { TT, 44, 22, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc, 9c8c, 9c7c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 6c5c }


      4) TT and flushes

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com
      Board: Ac2c4hTc7d
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 27.27% 27.27% 0.00% { AdAs }
      MP3 72.73% 72.73% 0.00% { TT, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc, 9c8c, 9c7c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 6c5c }

      If villain is capable of being aggro I don't see how we can fold. Occasionally you'll see a hand like KcQs being floated on the Flop and being used as a bluff raise on the turn.
    • pokerferrer
      pokerferrer
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 6,347
      And how do you plan to stack on paired river since we are out of postition?
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      Originally posted by pokerferrer
      And how do you plan to stack on paired river since we are out of postition?
      If river pairs the board we just ship it. Villain has ~$80 and pot is ~$115. Villain will pay off with flushes and worse fullhouses and I don't expect villain to be bluffing in this situation that often so there's no need to check to induce IMO.

      Edit: Actually now that I think about it some more checking seems good also. In the rare case that villain is bluffing we get villain's money by checking. Flushes and fullhouses will most likely still bet if we check. So now I like checking more. Yeah, it is very weird to me playing this deep.
    • pokerferrer
      pokerferrer
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 6,347
      zobupasts, and how balanced your donkbetting on paired rivers in huge pots? How do you propose to balance such moves?
      So if we check paired river we are risking to get check-behind. So we probably don't have implied odds to call the turn then.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I wouldn't lead the River unless villain is the cautious type of player who would check back small flushes on the River.

      How to balance the River? You could argue for bet/calling KcA on the Turn and then leading as a bluff, if you want some bluffing range on the River. but i don't think we need to do that, i prefer just checking everything and most players would just shove anyway on a paired river with all their flushes.
    • dooleslovs
      dooleslovs
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 481
      PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $137.07 (VPIP: 22.92, PFR: 18.23, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 197)
      SB: $65.52 (VPIP: 17.24, PFR: 1.15, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 90)
      Hero (BB): $175.84
      UTG: $96.24 (VPIP: 22.64, PFR: 18.85, 3Bet Preflop: 7.99, Hands: 837)
      MP: $75.31 (VPIP: 13.59, PFR: 7.77, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 105)
      CO: $54.24 (VPIP: 21.93, PFR: 18.26, 3Bet Preflop: 7.77, Hands: 974)

      SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has A:spade: A:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.50, fold, Hero raises to $4.75, BTN calls $3.25

      Flop: ($9.75, 2 players) A:club: 2:club: 4:heart:
      Hero bets $6.50, BTN calls $6.50

      Turn: ($22.75, 2 players) T:club:
      Hero bets $15.00, BTN raises to $46.04, Hero calls $31.04

      River: ($114.83, 2 players) 8:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN bets $79.78 and is all-in, fold

      BTN wins $112.33


      Board: 4:heart: A:club: 2:club:  T:club:  8:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    76.92%  76.92%   0.00% { TT, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc, KcTc, QcTc, JcTc, Kc9c, Qc9c, Jc9c, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 6c5c }
      MP3    23.08%  23.08%   0.00% { AdAs }


      So if we give him only TT for sets, and bunch of flush draws, its a fold, OTR, but, I do not know how wide is he pre. So its close IMO. And he should not be overplaying 22 44, but you never know :)
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Well he's TAGgy, which means 2 things

      -He doesn't get too out of line
      -His range is tighter, which means he shouldn't have so many speculative hands

      I think it's ok to fold here, but if you know he's a hyperaggro player you should snap call the River.