[NL2-NL10] Kk

    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BTN: $10.60
      SB: $11.08
      BB: $10.31
      UTG: $7.06
      MP: $20.12
      Hero (CO): $10.75

      SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has K:diamond: K:heart:

      UTG calls $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.20

      Flop: ($1.05, 3 players) 2:spade: 7:club: 2:club:
      UTG checks, Hero bets $0.70, fold, UTG raises to $1.40, Hero raises to $4.90, UTG raises to $6.76 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.86

      Turn: ($14.57, 2 players) 5:club:

      River: ($14.57, 2 players) J:spade:

      UTG shows A:spade: 2:heart: (Three of a Kind, Twos) (Pre 28%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
      Hero shows K:diamond: K:heart: (Two Pair, Kings and Twos) (Pre 72%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
      UTG wins $13.91


      He's 73/54 over 26 hands, 17% 3bet, Aggression factor 8.0

      Against this type of opponent we're not overplaying KK at all right?
  • 5 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Hey Metza,

      Preflop I would raise larger vs UTG limper, probably 5x or so.

      Flop cbet for value is fine. Vs check/min-raise you should usually just fold. The exception is if you'd seen villain make some questionable plays in the past and had reason to believe he would check/raise a 7x or flush-draw here.

      The information presented is not enough to assume villain is doing anything but flatting OOP with FD's and 7x. Even if you did continue here the best play would likely be to flat flop rather than 3bet to keep villain's range as wide as possible.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      I don't think flop minraises are as nutted as turn minraises. Especially not vs guy this loose and this aggressive.

      I can easily see him x/r w 7x here, and absolutely overpairs, though I imagine he's raising all of them preflop. Fish also like to minraise underpairs on paired boards, to "see where they're at"

      The guy is playing 75/54, his play is inherently questionable to begin with, and instead of innocent until proven guilty, I am assuming guilty until proven innocent with these guys. He is definitely a loose aggressive fish, not a loose passive fish.

      I just don't see how bet/folding KK is ever going to be +EV on the flop. I agree that calling is possibly better since it allows him to randomly spew off with random bluffs, but shoving also gets value from 7x which this kind of player is not ever folding but may slow down if overcards hit. I have never seen a 75/54 fish fold top pair on a paired board. It just doesn't happen.

      If we fold to the minraise, we're essentially saying we don't have 18% equity on the flop (0.7/3.85). This is basically never the case on a flop like this imo.

      I really feel like I ran into the very top of his range here. You think this isn't the case? I can barely even comprehend the idea of folding KK to a chk-minraise here, perhaps this is a leak of mine.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by metza
      I don't think flop minraises are as nutted as turn minraises.
      Agreed. I also think flop check-min-raises are more nutted than min-raise-IP. This guy might donk his 7x or draws or bluffs, usually takes a bigger hand for him to consider check-raising.



      Originally posted by metza
      Especially not vs guy this loose and this aggressive.
      The problem is, you don't actually have any reads on this guy. Just a highly limited sample size of statistics. If you had reads it might change things.



      Originally posted by metza
      If we fold to the minraise, we're essentially saying we don't have 18% equity on the flop (0.7/3.85). This is basically never the case on a flop like this imo.
      This is not accurate because we are not closing the action. We also hold a hand that suffers from reverse implied odds. If villain barrels turn and river with a high frequency we are suddenly not calling $0.70, but effectively wagering most of our stack to win what is in the pot. If we were closing the action, I'd snap-call.



      Originally posted by metza
      I really feel like I ran into the very top of his range here. You think this isn't the case? I can barely even comprehend the idea of folding KK to a chk-minraise here, perhaps this is a leak of mine.
      I don't think you have enough information to say you ran into the top of villain's range. Your standard assumption at these stakes should be that you did not run into the top of his range, and that his range is weighted towards 2x.

      When you have some reads you can adjust that assumption.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Once again I am reminded of the importance of posting hands for evaluation, thank you w34z3l. I do think you've helped me spot a leak here. :f_biggrin:

      Just moved up to NL25 and had this hand that for you will be a total "I told you so" and for me is a :facepalm:

      I knew I should fold the flop and was sooooo close to doing it until my brain got sneaky and was like, "no, this is NL25, people are more aggressive here".

      PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BB: $26.03
      UTG: $19.93
      Hero (MP): $36.68
      CO: $33.23
      BTN: $25.05
      SB: $29.97

      SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has K:club: K:diamond:

      UTG raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $2.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $1.50

      Flop: ($4.35, 2 players) 2:diamond: T:heart: 6:heart:
      UTG checks, Hero bets $3.00, UTG raises to $6.75, Hero calls $3.75

      Turn: ($17.85, 2 players) K:spade:
      UTG bets $11.18 and is all-in, Hero calls $11.18

      River: ($40.21, 2 players) 5:club:

      UTG shows T:club: T:spade: (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 18%, Flop 91%, Turn 2%)
      Hero shows K:club: K:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 82%, Flop 9%, Turn 98%)
      Hero wins $38.40
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      obviously never an easy spot to fold; I think overall it will be the best option though.

      And I won't say "I told you so", because one hand does not prove anything. Of course he will raise his sets, the question is the frequency with which he will raise and barrel non-nut hands. Typically I would assume it to be pretty low at these stakes. Even the non-nut hands will usually have a ton of equity in the form of draws.