[NL20-NL50] JTs vs 4bet

    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      iPoker - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 53.36 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
      UTG: 99 BB (VPIP: 21.38, PFR: 17.96, 3Bet Preflop: 8.09, Hands: 4,204)
      MP: 145.52 BB (VPIP: 23.70, PFR: 20.28, 3Bet Preflop: 7.93, Hands: 2,338)
      CO: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 20.39, PFR: 17.13, 3Bet Preflop: 8.76, Hands: 632)
      Hero (BTN): 100 BB
      SB: 119.56 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:diamond: J:diamond:

      fold, MP raises to 3.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, MP raises to 22 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

      Flop: (45.5 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond: 6:diamond: 4:heart:
      MP checks, Hero bets 18 BB, fold

      Hero shows T:diamond: J:diamond: (High Card, Queen)
      Hero wins 43.24 BB


      4b+ 18%. opens 18% mp, folds 83% to 3bet. Like I said in my previous post, I started calling 98s, TJs 4bet vs aggro 4better. This one is probably huge mistake since he folds 83%?

      would it be ok to shove after his cbet to try to fold his Ax or JJ and weaker?
  • 3 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      Preflop: We are in BU with a very good suited connector. I guess his large open raise size makes it better for 3 betting, but you could probably just flat here anyway. Instead, use the weaker connectors like 87s and below to 3bet here.

      Flop: Shove flop? You rep a draw so hard if you do that. QXX boards tend to help the caller's range more, so I don't mind just betting 18 like you did and pushing all turns besides another Queen.

      Thanks.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by mbml
      Hi.

      Preflop: We are in BU with a very good suited connector. I guess his large open raise size makes it better for 3 betting, but you could probably just flat here anyway. Instead, use the weaker connectors like 87s and below to 3bet here.

      Flop: Shove flop? You rep a draw so hard if you do that. QXX boards tend to help the caller's range more, so I don't mind just betting 18 like you did and pushing all turns besides another Queen.

      Thanks.
      I know that I am representing draws most of the time, but I try to fold AK, and some hands which he 4bets as blockers. I think he can hardly call push with those hands, and calls anyway with KK+.

      Question regarding open raising size. I notice that almost all reggs open 1.75$ positions CO, MP, UTG, and 1$ or 1.25 from BU, SB.
      I am opening all position 1.5$ and bu 1$.
      What is the point of adding 0.25$ as they do?

      when I open raise, I am doing that just with the goal to steal the blinds, and not with goal to win postflop (except with premiums). So I choose 1.5$ to make my steals from any positions cheaper. And premiums I open the same size for deception. I understand that it is better when we have better hand and opponents calls preflop that we win more money (questionable, since opponent might fold more often), but also we loose more when somebody 3bets us (and most of people are aggro 3betters).
      So I am not sure what is better open size.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      About open-raise size:

      When your range is stronger, use a larger raise size. When your range is weaker, use a smaller raise size. It's as simple as that. This applies both to preflop and postflop sitautions. No point opening 4BB from UTG if your range is 20% - You are just going to get raped by an aggro 3better behind you. A smaller 2.5BB open raise would make more sense for such a loose strategy.

      Larger raise sizes make more sense in EP, cos ranges are not only stronger, but also because there are more players left to act behind. This helps in isolation and thinning the field. Imagine if you always raised 2BB in UTG in a NL2 game - you are going to get 4-5 callers almost every time. If you raise in BU, you would often have to fold to 3bets (most players have fold to 3b in BU of 66-80%) so you don't want to put in so much dead money with a weak range when you are often going to have to fold.

      This is why I often advocate opening 4BB in NL2-NL10 in the beginner hand evaluation forums for such reasons.