Dealt cards.

    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      Hi!

      Im just wondering, when playing online. Lets say i have J 10 preflop and fold. The flop comes J J 10. If i called preflop, would the flop be the same or the generator would have chosen other cards by then?

      Thank you for answering!
  • 16 replies
    • Grolongor
      Grolongor
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      Joined: 06.01.2011 Posts: 15
      are you serious? of course it is the same :D :D :D
    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      i was thinking, that the generator stop at a time, when the card actually has to be dealt, to protect it from hackers to see the upcoming flop or other streets.
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Grolongor
      are you serious? of course it is the same :D :D :D
      No, actually it depends on the site.

      In PokerStars the card order is "locked in", so I guess you can have the unhelpful thought, 'if I called I would have hit a full house' or whatever.

      On FullTilt the cards are on continuous shuffle so the cards are constantly being shuffled, I think this is happening every street and not just preflop.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by Idle7
      Hi!

      Im just wondering, when playing online. Lets say i have J 10 preflop and fold. The flop comes J J 10. If i called preflop, would the flop be the same or the generator would have chosen other cards by then?

      Thank you for answering!
      There are times when I feel the same way.

      I keep expecting the sound effect on the flop to change to an evil chuckle sound when I flop a boat on a folded hand.

      I once posted a hand where I folded pre and would have had a straight flush.

      It was that hand that made me change the meaning of "F2F" in my screen name. It originally meant "Face to Face"

      It is going to happen...

      To be quite honest, I have no idea how the cards are dealt.
      It seems to me that the "fair" way to run a poker room is that the order of the cards in the virtual deck is set BEFORE the deal, then not altered at all until the last card is dealt.

      There are problems with that approach though.
      There are 8.06582E+67 possible permutations of 52 cards.
      If the "seed" of the random number generator is not sufficiently large, then then some permutations are not possible.

      Note that pokerstars recently ran a "100 billionth hand" promotion.
      Even if all those hands were full-ring, that is only 9.0E+11 so the number of hands still never dealt is huge.

      The next "fair" way is for each and every card, randomly choose a card from the remaining cards available.

      In neither case would any player's actions have any effect on the outcome.

      --VS

      PS: Yes, I do know that the pseudo-random-number generators in common use are far more complex than those built into home computers.
      I don't actually know their practical limitations, though.
    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      I think id be more happier, if the cards were different while calling or folding.
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F

      In neither case would any player's actions have any effect on the outcome.
      Actually at FullTilt to the best of my knowledge the cards are shuffled up till the moment you click the button.

      So in effect, if you don't flop a boat...

      IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT

      :coolface:
    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      So basically you can control the flop if you are last to act, even tho you dont know the upcoming cards?
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Idle7
      So basically you can control the flop if you are last to act, even tho you dont know the upcoming cards?
      You can't control the flop of course, eg. wanting a specific card. But to the best of my knowledge the amount of time you spend waiting before clicking call while last to act will affect the outcome (albeit in a way you can't predict) in FullTilt.
    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      Originally posted by metza
      Originally posted by Idle7
      So basically you can control the flop if you are last to act, even tho you dont know the upcoming cards?
      You can't control the flop of course, eg. wanting a specific card. But to the best of my knowledge the amount of time you spend waiting before clicking call while last to act will affect the outcome (albeit in a way you can't predict) in FullTilt.
      Wish it was same in pokerstars, hard to see those flops, when would have made nuts and alot of action follows to it.
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
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      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Does it matter though? Even if time spent waiting does affect the cards dealt, it's impossible to abuse.

      It's really just a form of tilt, imo. You only remember the flops where you would have flopped the nuts, but simply "forget" about all the times where you would've flopped absolutely nothing. Yes, it sucks if you fold JT only to see a JJJ flop. But that's poker.

      Don't let your mind get affected by flops you would have/would not have hit with the cards you folded. Just make the most +EV moves and be happy you made a good fold even if you would have flopped the nuts :)
    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      Originally posted by TinoLaan
      Does it matter though? Even if time spent waiting does affect the cards dealt, it's impossible to abuse.

      It's really just a form of tilt, imo. You only remember the flops where you would have flopped the nuts, but simply "forget" about all the times where you would've flopped absolutely nothing. Yes, it sucks if you fold JT only to see a JJJ flop. But that's poker.

      Don't let your mind get affected by flops you would have/would not have hit with the cards you folded. Just make the most +EV moves and be happy you made a good fold even if you would have flopped the nuts :)
      I have been on tilt just because of that, but i have set my mind not to tilt on these situations anymore. I actually do think that the flop would have been different if i called even if its not true. Now i know its not true and think, that there have been alot of these hands i flopped nuts, but the other guy would have rivered me out, so i saved alot.
    • zumpar
      zumpar
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      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by Grolongor
      are you serious? of course it is the same :D :D :D
      no it is not the same actually... most poker rooms use a continuous shuffle generator so most probably, it would be different..

      this way, when u say, call the flop, the card that is dealt on the turn depends on the time u spent calling the flop, if u waited lets say 1 sec later, the T card would be different...
      just sayin
    • doctorkgb
      doctorkgb
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      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,263
      Originally posted by zumpar
      Originally posted by Grolongor
      are you serious? of course it is the same :D :D :D
      no it is not the same actually... most poker rooms use a continuous shuffle generator so most probably, it would be different..

      this way, when u say, call the flop, the card that is dealt on the turn depends on the time u spent calling the flop, if u waited lets say 1 sec later, the T card would be different...
      just sayin
      I allways wait 1 sec later, and turn is meh, mostly :D
    • Idle7
      Idle7
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      Joined: 17.09.2010 Posts: 41
      But pokerstars still have a locked shuffle?
    • zumpar
      zumpar
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      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by doctorkgb
      Originally posted by zumpar
      Originally posted by Grolongor
      are you serious? of course it is the same :D :D :D
      no it is not the same actually... most poker rooms use a continuous shuffle generator so most probably, it would be different..

      this way, when u say, call the flop, the card that is dealt on the turn depends on the time u spent calling the flop, if u waited lets say 1 sec later, the T card would be different...
      just sayin
      I allways wait 1 sec later, and turn is meh, mostly :D
      well, then the answer is obv....

      either snapcall, or wait for 2 seconds :D
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
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      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      yeah right?
      just think about all these horrible bad beats you could have avoided by waiting longer :D