Need some help with micro zoom FR

    • vuciitis
      vuciitis
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2011 Posts: 1,315
      Hi!

      Im kinda new to cash games, and i would like to hear some toughts on general things about zoom poker which im currently trying to learn. So, im playing nl10 zoom full ring BSS and i feel like im doing somthing wrong. Sample is not big but i think its enough to draw some conclusions.

      Just for info- first ~13k hands i played ~18/14 style and really loose on steal positions but i didnt felt comfortably all the time playing 3bet / 4bet pots and i had no idea how to act as i had no stats on regs which were pushing me around like every hand. So i tried to play more tight and the second part of the graph is ~12/9 rocky style. It kinda worked and i dont feel like regs are 3betting me that much from blinds but my overall results got much worse, i seem to be loosing non showdown waaaaay to much on blinds as i should.







      Sadly i cant include some inportant stats like 3bet, AG and steal because my shitty HEM2 is buggy again and just doesnt include those stats even if i reset defaults... :X

      Things that worries me:

      1)what would be an avereage -bb/100 on SB and BB playing tight and loose?
      2)how long on average are downswings for zoom (so i know, mby im just getting unlucky and my games is ok to continue like it is now)
      3)what seems to be the best way to play this limit- more loose or tighter?
      4)and what is ok sample to draw some real conclusions?
      5)and what range are you restealing vs unknowns?

      Tnx, i hope to see some real answers which would be helpfull :)
  • 4 replies
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Silver
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,368
      hey, i don't play fullring anymore but i have a rough idea of it since i used to only play it at the beginning.

      about your graph, it's hard to say. 25k hands is gunna be really rich in variance but i think it does give a general idea of what's going on. however your positional stats won't have enough hands to mean much.

      one thing that stands out to me is your flop cbet % looks pretty crazy high... in fullring you're starting off with a tighter range from preflop and so you are more likely to have a stronger hand on the flop... but i still think 90% is waaay too high. you should look for flops to not cbet on and just give up. you should also try and find spots (probably IP mostly) to use a delayed cbet instead. obv you shouldn't try to purposefully reduce your cbet stat, but it does seem to indicate that you are cbetting too much i.e. putting money into the pot and giving up at some point later in the hand thus bleeding money at NSD. so i'd say try and work on your cbet game.

      kinda hard to say what else since you don't have that many stats posted and you also dont have much of a sample. but something else i'd suggest is to check out your call vs 3bet%. i think lots of people have a leak here so maybe reading this article might help with that if you have problems here.

      you didn't post your 3bet stat so i can't really comment on it. however your flop cbet in 3bet pots is even higher (small sample still) which might indicate either you bluff cbet way too much after 3bet bluffing, or you 3bet only a static range that isnt specifically based on your opponent's tendencies. what i mean by this is that you might 3bet a range like mainly JJ+ and AQ or something so you make it to the flop with a pretty strong range and then cbet pretty much every flop. just an assumption though because i have no idea how you approach cbetting.

      1)what would be an avereage -bb/100 on SB and BB playing tight and loose?

      - can't really comment on this since i play 6max

      2)how long on average are downswings for zoom (so i know, mby im just getting unlucky and my games is ok to continue like it is now)

      - playing zoom won't affect the length of downswing in any way possible. the variance is just the same as normal tables. with that said, the thing that would affect it is if you tilt then the problems caused by that would affect your winnings simply because you end up playing more hands while on tilt but aside from that zoom variance is gunna be no different to regular table variance.

      3)what seems to be the best way to play this limit- more loose or tighter?

      - villain dependent, not limit-dependent :D

      4)and what is ok sample to draw some real conclusions?

      - ~30k hands isnt a terrible sample, 50k hands starts to look better but 100k hands to get a much better picture. infinite hands would be nice tho!

      5)and what range are you restealing vs unknowns?

      - if i'm playing vs unknowns i'll probably be restealing mainly only for value until i get any bit of information about how they play. the more they seem to fold to 3bets the more i'll resteal as a bluff... not really an area i'm confident with myself.

      hope that helps! so you should check out
      - cbetting
      - 3betting (adjusting to villains)
      - calling 3bets (or NOT calling 3bets lol)

      that's my $0.02
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,946
      Hey guys,

      I'll move this to our NL Discussion board. Threads like these don't belong and get lost in General Poker Discussion.


      Regards,
      Gary
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Silver
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,881
      these barrelling percentages, man :f_eek: definitely look into your cbetting spots.
      also you don't seem to be very positionally aware, looks like you are opening pretty much the same range from utg to mp3 and then suddenly you decide to play looser on cutoff.

      sb is whatever, i personally think it's ok to open super wide from sb on nl10- (people fold A LOT more than they should) but then over 90% cbet on sb is never ever going to be optimal, give up more often with weak/no equity oop.
    • vuciitis
      vuciitis
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2011 Posts: 1,315
      well in reality im kinda fine with position awareness, my opens are kinda balanced, i have no idea why stats looks so similar for utg and mid.
      about cbetting you guys are right 100%, i do cbet too much and i know that, but i always find some magical reason why i think its the best option :D i guess for start not cbetting low pairs so often would be ok, to reduce overall %.

      and yes, im 3betting pretty stong range which usually makes sense to cbet. finally i have enough stats on oponents to work with and i can start developing some individual aproaches. (trying not to over think though as its a common tendency for me to think too deep about hand and in the end i just get lost in my own shit... nl10 is about the basics anyways :) )

      big big tnx guys for some toughts about things that worries me.

      and kinda big "2cents" from you mr drdunne :D