Winner's Tilt

    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Ok I've had this problem for a long time and haven't been able to effectively fix it.

      When I win a few BIs in a day, I am scared to play anymore for the fear of losing some money back. I feel like I've hit my peak and if I play further I might fall from it and I want to end my day at the peak. I feel like I've achieved a decent result for the day and should relax now and enjoy the rest of the day, lose the motivation to grind.

      When losing however I have no problem grinding it out and am also motivated to put in a decent volume.

      What this effectively does is makes me play my A game less as there is a sort of stop win on it.

      I've disciplined myself enough to not check results at all during a session but when you have a really good session you know you're up and that makes me stop without even checking my results.

      I've tried to not check my results all day but that also doesn't always work cause sometimes you need to see the hands. Removed Net Won, bb etc. stats from reports in HM2 so that I only see hands played and time played but this is only a temporary solution. Anyway sometimes results need to be checked and its impossible to be completely detached to results.

      This has been happening a lot lately, I'm purely bum hunting and playing stakes that I'm doing pretty well at but its pissing off, this problem. Its like a stop on the growth rate. Hitting that mental limit of mine every 2-3 days.

      If I somehow force myself to play I almost always lose and curse myself after that, I mean I have to lose, I'm not playing in the right state of mind.

      Almost every serious player I speak to has the same problem at a different level, so if anyone has a serious solution to this please share, you'll be doing a lot of people a huge favour.

      I can go as deep as I need to, inorder to fix this.

      It seems more like a motivation problem than a confidence problem.

      Please refrain from giving standard answers like don't be result oriented etc.
  • 10 replies
    • FatSunny
      FatSunny
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2011 Posts: 389
      I have had same problem, and the best solution I found was by accident when I joined one of the Microgaming rooms. These sites have the option of transferring funds to and from your main account to your poker account.
      Now what I do is every time I have a winning session I transfer any profits from my poker to my main account, then have a break. Then when I return to the game later Im starting with the same bankroll every time and its like my winnings never happened!

      You need to have good stop lose targets tho because I never transfer back to poker account as in my mind it doesnt exist!

      Its a psychological thing for me but it works and its amazing how quick your cash racks up in your main account
    • spreeboy
      spreeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2010 Posts: 223
      Originally posted by maheepsangari
      Ok I've had this problem for a long time and haven't been able to effectively fix it.

      When I win a few BIs in a day, I am scared to play anymore for the fear of losing some money back. I feel like I've hit my peak and if I play further I might fall from it and I want to end my day at the peak. I feel like I've achieved a decent result for the day and should relax now and enjoy the rest of the day, lose the motivation to grind.
      I also have the same problem before, but I somehow "accidentally" find a way to fix it (at least it works for me).

      Earlier this month, I found myself a poker buddy at 10NL. He is also a winning player at stars. Since then we spent a lot of time discussing strategies and looking into each others game. We both set a goal to move up to 25NL by mid-June or July (depends on how fast we could build our roll).

      The goal of moving up to a higher stake effectively boost my motivation to win and win and win more. If I am running hot early in my session, I still feel the need to win more knowing that I have to build my roll as fast as I can, so I keep playing. If losing, then the more I feel the need to bounce back. I take a break, review my losing hands to see if I played bad or if it was simply variance. There is no slowing down until I meet the required roll for the next limit.

      Judging by your statement above, it seems like you are satisfied or comfortable at your current limit. And you are right by saying that this is a motivation problem. I suggest that you set more challenging goals like moving up rather than simply winning a session.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by FatSunny
      I have had same problem, and the best solution I found was by accident when I joined one of the Microgaming rooms. These sites have the option of transferring funds to and from your main account to your poker account.
      Now what I do is every time I have a winning session I transfer any profits from my poker to my main account, then have a break. Then when I return to the game later Im starting with the same bankroll every time and its like my winnings never happened!

      You need to have good stop lose targets tho because I never transfer back to poker account as in my mind it doesnt exist!

      Its a psychological thing for me but it works and its amazing how quick your cash racks up in your main account
      If you do this then basically you'll go bust.

      Your effective win rate is 0bb/100 since you withdraw all your profit and if you don't put any back into your bankroll variance will ensure you go broke no matter how big your BR is. Its mathematical. Try it on variance calculators you'll see for yourself.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Originally posted by spreeboy

      I also have the same problem before, but I somehow "accidentally" find a way to fix it (at least it works for me).

      Earlier this month, I found myself a poker buddy at 10NL. He is also a winning player at stars. Since then we spent a lot of time discussing strategies and looking into each others game. We both set a goal to move up to 25NL by mid-June or July (depends on how fast we could build our roll).

      The goal of moving up to a higher stake effectively boost my motivation to win and win and win more. If I am running hot early in my session, I still feel the need to win more knowing that I have to build my roll as fast as I can, so I keep playing. If losing, then the more I feel the need to bounce back. I take a break, review my losing hands to see if I played bad or if it was simply variance. There is no slowing down until I meet the required roll for the next limit.

      Judging by your statement above, it seems like you are satisfied or comfortable at your current limit. And you are right by saying that this is a motivation problem. I suggest that you set more challenging goals like moving up rather than simply winning a session.
      I use a 25 BI BRM. I withdraw form time to time when I need to.

      I strongly feel that moving up is more a factor of your skill than even your BR. If you just keep moving up constantly you will fall soon cause your skill won't increase at the same rate as your BR, in an upswing BR will rise much faster, been there done that NL2-NL50 in less than 3 months :D .

      So I take my time at every stake to ensure I beat the stake over a significant sample before moving up.
    • FatSunny
      FatSunny
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2011 Posts: 389
      I dont see how you will go bust? Can you explain please?
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Risk of ruin = EXP((-2*Win Rate*Bankroll)/Std dev^2)

      Win rate and Std dev are in bb/100 and bankroll is in bb. So with a normal win rate of 4 bb/100 and a normal holdem std dev 80 bb/100 risk of ruin is close to 4%.

      A win rate of 0 bb/100 will make the risk of ruin 100%. When you withdraw all your winnings and you don't put any back ever you're bound to go broke.

      Anyway deviating from the topic, lets not start discussing this, if you're more interested you'll find a lot of threads on this topic.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      I'm not sure I understand why you call this "Winner's Tilt"

      I have always thought of "Winner's Tilt" as the phenomenon where a person wins several BI, and begins to loosen up too much.

      In fact, when I am sitting at a table with 200+ bb, I also tighten up, but I think that playing deep stacks tightly is sensible -- not tilting at all.

      If, on the other hand you mean win a couple of stacks, then quit just to "book a win", then yes I can see you have a problem.

      If you find yourself in this situation, try saying to yourself something to remind you to play each hand individually.

      Something like, "This hand stands alone. No factors outside the hand will affect my decision"

      Regards,
      --VS
    • seranpoker
      seranpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2010 Posts: 276
      I feel motivated to grind more when I win and keep setting slightly higher targets from my current BR. I guess it has a lot to do with security and your state of mind. For example, when you have nice plan chartered out for the month in terms BIs aimed at achieving or to reach a certain BR, then at any point if you are ahead of your plan, you might want to call it quits for the day.

      This will also make you play more than what is necessary if you are at any point behind in your chartered plan.
    • spreeboy
      spreeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2010 Posts: 223
      Originally posted by maheepsangari
      I use a 25 BI BRM. I withdraw form time to time when I need to.

      I strongly feel that moving up is more a factor of your skill than even your BR. If you just keep moving up constantly you will fall soon cause your skill won't increase at the same rate as your BR, in an upswing BR will rise much faster, been there done that NL2-NL50 in less than 3 months :D .

      So I take my time at every stake to ensure I beat the stake over a significant sample before moving up.
      Yes of course, we are not planning to move up without considering our winrate too. My point is to set your own goal or reason to play poker which is more motivating than simply winning. Take Isildur1, the guy is known to play for long sessions regardless of the result. According to Galfond, the guy loves poker very much and will even play a new variant as long as he thinks its fun, even if he is a big dog vs regs. But motivation problems obviously varies for each player and could only be resolved personally. If its not moving up, then find something else. Reach supernova, SNE, etc... it's up to you.
    • FatSunny
      FatSunny
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.05.2011 Posts: 389
      I think you misunderstood me I dont withdraw the profits I transfer them to main account then when I feel ready to move up or take a shot I then transfer it back to the poker side, so when I return to play I cant lose whats not there, and if I do have a losing session the challenge for the next one is to get back my original starting br. I hope that explains it a bit better.