[NL2-NL10] nl10 - anon - 99

    • gAsheks
      gAsheks
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2012 Posts: 1,580
      Prima, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

      MP: $10 (100 bb)
      CO: $8.21 (82.1 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $12.87 (128.7 bb)
      SB: $10 (100 bb)
      BB: $19.27 (192.7 bb)
      UTG: $6.36 (63.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 9
      UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, SB folds, BB calls $0.30, UTG folds

      Flop: ($0.95) 4 Q 3 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, BB calls $0.70

      Turn: ($2.35) 6 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $1.55, BB folds

      Shooting. Anon tables. We dont have specific reads or notes on opponent.
      Im not sure about my barreling, but i wanted to get him off like AJ, KJ etc. Best case would be if he folds TT.
      Im not happy if 3rd diamond appears.

      Is particular line okay? Can i play this hand some other way?
  • 12 replies
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      Hello,

      I'd play this the same way. We can make some midpockets to fold, as well as some flush-draws to call us. Clear value-bet here and I'd check-back that river on any card.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by CPallo
      Hello,

      I'd play this the same way. We can make some midpockets to fold, as well as some flush-draws to call us. Clear value-bet here and I'd check-back that river on any card.
      If you are making mid pockets fold, then you are not value betting. Vs a calling range of top pairs and flush draws, you are an underdog here.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      Originally posted by mbml
      Originally posted by CPallo
      Hello,

      I'd play this the same way. We can make some midpockets to fold, as well as some flush-draws to call us. Clear value-bet here and I'd check-back that river on any card.
      If you are making mid pockets fold, then you are not value betting. Vs a calling range of top pairs and flush draws, you are an underdog here.
      Ment JJ/TT here, sorry for my language :D
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I don't like betting here on the Turn readless. Flop bet is also arguable, I think it's fine but you could argue for a check back on the Flop to induce some bluffs.

      So I would bet flop, check turn, and call on a non on the River.
    • gAsheks
      gAsheks
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2012 Posts: 1,580
      Thanks.
    • kriko92
      kriko92
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2010 Posts: 800
      Why do you think check back turn and then call non-flush rivers is best? Only reason I can see for this is if we expect him to float oop on flop which I don't think will happen very often on nl10. Otherwise he obv. bets his Qx and he sometimes bluffs his missed draws and sometimes he doesn't (yes, he should do it but whether he knows this is a bit questionable on nl10).
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by CPallo
      Originally posted by mbml
      Originally posted by CPallo
      Hello,

      I'd play this the same way. We can make some midpockets to fold, as well as some flush-draws to call us. Clear value-bet here and I'd check-back that river on any card.
      If you are making mid pockets fold, then you are not value betting. Vs a calling range of top pairs and flush draws, you are an underdog here.
      Ment JJ/TT here, sorry for my language :D
      Well you do have decent showdown value here with 99, so I really see no reason to turn it into a bluff. And if you turn one of the best checking hands into a bluff, I suppose you are betting 100% of your range on the Turn? That's going to make you highly exploitable.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Originally posted by kriko92
      Why do you think check back turn and then call non-flush rivers is best? Only reason I can see for this is if we expect him to float oop on flop which I don't think will happen very often on nl10. Otherwise he obv. bets his Qx and he sometimes bluffs his missed draws and sometimes he doesn't (yes, he should do it but whether he knows this is a bit questionable on nl10).
      well that is why I suggested the alternative of checking back the Flop and just calling down on low run outs. The bet F call R line is better if we have the read that villain is calling flop wide and then bluffing a ton on the River.

      Irregardless, both of those lines are much better than 2 barreling. 2barreling with JJ may be better if you think villain never folds 2nd pair hands and has a ton of draws (55-TT are all c/c-ing the Turn, as well as the draws). But 99 is definitely way too weak to 2barrel for thin value. And I really dislike turning 99 into a bluff cos of its showdown value.
    • gAsheks
      gAsheks
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2012 Posts: 1,580
      Originally posted by mbml
      Originally posted by kriko92
      Why do you think check back turn and then call non-flush rivers is best? Only reason I can see for this is if we expect him to float oop on flop which I don't think will happen very often on nl10. Otherwise he obv. bets his Qx and he sometimes bluffs his missed draws and sometimes he doesn't (yes, he should do it but whether he knows this is a bit questionable on nl10).
      well that is why I suggested the alternative of checking back the Flop and just calling down on low run outs. The bet F call R line is better if we have the read that villain is calling flop wide and then bluffing a ton on the River.

      Irregardless, both of those lines are much better than 2 barreling. 2barreling with JJ may be better if you think villain never folds 2nd pair hands and has a ton of draws (55-TT are all c/c-ing the Turn, as well as the draws). But 99 is definitely way too weak to 2barrel for thin value. And I really dislike turning 99 into a bluff cos of its showdown value.
      The problem here is that i played nl10 anon tables for about 20-30 min till this hand. I mentioned that im shooting.
      What reads you expect me to have?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      IMO checking Flop is probably the best line readless. And betting Flop and checking Turn with the intention of calling blank Rivers is the next best line.

      Since you are readless then you should check the Flop. A double barrel is going to be -EV the majority of the time, based on standard assumptions on villain's range.
    • kriko92
      kriko92
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2010 Posts: 800
      Ok, one more question and I'll stop being annoying :D I just still can't see how check back turn and then call river is better than bet 1/2 turn and checking back on the river. I'm not saying betting is the best line, just want to know if and why it is worse than checking back and calling river.

      You said standard range and I assume his standard range here will be some Qx, some draws and some small pairs and maybe some floats oop on the flop but I think this is unlikely.

      So vs Qx if we decide to bet we will lose our 1/2 bet on the turn only, whereas if we check back he will usually bet more than that and we will lose more vs this part of his range.

      Vs draws bet also seems better to me because we will win some money vs these on the turn when we bet, while we can't be sure how often he bluffs with them when we check and he misses on river.

      Vs small pairs I guess it's kind of the same what we do, maybe betting would be a bit worse if he calls TT/JJ but folds 77/88 to 1/2 betsize.

      If he floats flop oop then it's better to check back turn and call river but from my experience I don't see people doing this often enough on nl10 and I can even go on to say there are a lot more players who will never bluff on this river and have only Qx when they bet than players who float flop wide.

      So in general I think after we have made the cbet on flop we should either bet 1/2 turn if we believe he has enough hands different than Qx or just check back and fold river. He will just have Qx too often on the river when he bets.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      We have a made hand here. We don't want to turn our made hand into a bluff. So question is whether we can value bet on the Turn or not.

      If your equity vs a Turn calling range is >50%, you can value bet. If not, you should check. River spot -> Villain leads the River. Look at his bet size and determine his pot odds. If you are beating a sufficient % of his range, call. If not, fold.

      QX: Let's assume we lose a similar amount
      Draws: Yes you can bet for value against those on the Turn again I suppose, as opposed to giving a free card. But if you think about his range as a whole, I just don't think you can bet for value here.
      Small Pocket pairs: I just think he folds them most of the time and if we check he probably checks river again. Let's assume that check and bet are both neutral decisions

      Air: This is the main category of hands which will make a difference. Villain is going to have his AJ or KT type of floats on the Flop pretty often. If you bet the Turn, he simply folds them. If you check Turn, he will often bluff on the River.