[NL20-NL50] J9s top2 turn raised

    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,868
      IPoker, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP: $67.41 (134.8 bb)
      Hero (CO): $50.75 (101.5 bb)
      BTN: $91.26 (182.5 bb)
      SB: $66.76 (133.5 bb)
      BB: $77.67 (155.3 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with J 9
      MP folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BTN calls $1.25, 2 folds

      Flop: ($3.25) 9 J 5 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2, BTN calls $2

      Turn: ($7.25) 2 (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.50, BTN raises to $10.37, Hero calls $5.87

      River: ($27.99) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $38, Hero folds

      Results:
      $27.99 pot ($1.39 rake)
      Final Board: 9 J 5 2 4
      Hero mucked J 9 and lost (-$13.62 net)
      BTN mucked and won $26.60 ($12.98 net)


      21/17/261 flop raise vs cb 0

      Even turn call was bad? I thought I had few redraw but can bluff catch
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,908
      Hi,

      CO vs BU you can probably think about value shoving the turn... His range there is usually with quite a few draws that he floated on the flop and you just block so many sets it's hard for him to really have better.

      It's one of the weakest hands I'd get it in with but it's still top2 pair in late positions against somewhat regular player by the looks of his stats so far.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,565
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Hi,

      CO vs BU you can probably think about value shoving the turn... His range there is usually with quite a few draws that he floated on the flop and you just block so many sets it's hard for him to really have better.

      regular player by the looks of his stats so far.
      If we put him on a draw or set (or pure bluff), why not call turn and ch/c river? IF he is a regg, he shouldn't call our 3bet on turn with a draw, or air, and we can fold on river if draw completes. I think wih shoving on turn we are isolating mostly vs sets (not many combos, that's why villian is going to fold most of the time, and call sometimes with sets).
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,908
      There are 2 sides for this line:

      1) He raises turn so most draws that he can raise get good equity against us, might call it off (not all) so we just get it in with better equity and ofc we also get in vs sets.

      2) We just call the turn and check/call all blank rivers where he ofc has all sets which stack us anyway but he can check back some busted draws and sometimes a hand like AJ that he raised on the turn.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,565
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      There are 2 sides for this line:

      1) He raises turn so most draws that he can raise get good equity against us, might call it off (not all) so we just get it in with better equity and ofc we also get in vs sets.

      2) We just call the turn and check/call all blank rivers where he ofc has all sets which stack us anyway but he can check back some busted draws and sometimes a hand like AJ that he raised on the turn.
      I see your point. Do we expect a regg to call turn shove with a draw? I think that he folds almost always. Ofc it is the same if we shove turn and he folds, or when he raises turn we call, and he checks river. But I assume that many reggs would bet river even if they miss? Do you think that it is the case?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,908
      The call is not something I deem good, it's more of tilt call 5% of the time or so.

      I agree, some regs will bet very often so the difference is not big at all unless we have a better idea. It sounds easy but finding info of one or the other isn't:

      - if he bets all busted draws, we call turn, call river
      - if he doesn't we can call turn and decide river correctly
      - if he tilt calls some draws, we should be good with shoving turn.

      All valid lines imo but we miss that piece of river info. I'd say a lot give up on river because they also don't float to raise turn too often so when their river frequency drops, it usually just drops their busted draws or thinner value hands.