[NL2-NL10] NL5 SH Speed KK in BB

    • MareksVas
      MareksVas
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 76
      iPoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (BB): 221.4 BB
      UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
      MP: 142.2 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
      CO: 35.8 BB (VPIP: 26.52, PFR: 24.31, 3Bet Preflop: 10.53, Hands: 188)
      BTN: 33.8 BB (VPIP: 16.95, PFR: 3.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)
      SB: 103 BB (VPIP: 36.00, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 28)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:club: K:heart:

      fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, MP calls 6 BB

      Flop: (18.4 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond: 7:spade: A:club:
      Hero bets 13 BB, MP calls 13 BB

      Turn: (44.4 BB, 2 players) J:spade:
      Hero bets 31 BB, MP calls 31 BB

      River: (106.4 BB, 2 players) 6:spade:
      Hero checks, MP bets 89.2 BB, fold

      MP wins 101.2 BB

      So Cbet on flop pretty standart. What action may better be chosen on the turn and therefore on river?
  • 8 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hello,

      3bet bigger preflop.

      Why cbetting the turn is standard here? What range do you put him on when he calls preflop? What hands are going to continue when you bet?

      As played, once he calls the flop, I'd check/fold the turn. Don't really see him calling worse neither folding better.

      Best,
      Plamen
    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      Would you bet flop or play check and see how action unfolds on flop and turn?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Originally posted by GreenPiece
      Would you bet flop or play check and see how action unfolds on flop and turn?
      I didn't tell my opinion about the flop intentionally since I wanted the player (and also other members) to think about his preflop/flop range and what might be the best thing to do here.

      So having this said, what is your opinion about the flop? Are you going to cbet here? If so, why? If not, why?
    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      Well, let's make some assumptions:
      1) if we bet hardly will worse hands call
      2) if we bet hardly will better hands fold

      So we can't bet neither as a bluff or for value. But what do if we check? Of course we give the opponent possibility to bluff but will we be able to call 3 or even 2 streets? Will the opponent bluff often enough to make this move profitable for us?

      To prevent this guessing game and to prevent potential rebluffs we can actually bet ourselves one time and give up if called.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Originally posted by GreenPiece
      Well, let's make some assumptions:
      1) if we bet hardly will worse hands call
      2) if we bet hardly will better hands fold

      So we can't bet neither as a bluff or for value. But what do if we check? Of course we give the opponent possibility to bluff but will we be able to call 3 or even 2 streets? Will the opponent bluff often enough to make this move profitable for us?

      To prevent this guessing game and to prevent potential rebluffs we can actually bet ourselves one time and give up if called.
      Hey again,

      As the thread maker doesn't seem to be very active, but you do, lets comment on those assumptions you made.

      First of all, I do agree that we can hardly make worse hands to call - usually PPs do tend to call at maximum one street on Axx boards in 3bet pots, but I don't agree we can hardly make better hands to fold - to me we can NEVER make Ax to fold in this spot in a 3bet pot.

      The thing that I really wanted to comment on is his preflop range, because we are 140bb deep and we made quite a weak sizing, plus he is IP, so he might be calling a lot. Unfortunately for us, people do tend to call more hands like Ax than T9, so I think his range mostly consists Ax hands and pocket pairs, as well with some SC as well.
      So, I do recommend checking here not to let him bluff, but to minimize our loss against Ax. Also, if we do go for a check here, he'd be more inclined to call us with a PP.

      I do agree however that the turn game might be a little bit hard, so if we do have enough fold equity on the flop, then I wouldn't really mind going for the flop bet right away.
    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      Originally posted by kymupa
      but I don't agree we can hardly make better hands to fold - to me we can NEVER make Ax to fold in this spot in a 3bet pot.
      Mayhap my English is not proper... But I meant that hardly = never :)

      Originally posted by kymupa
      So, I do recommend checking here not to let him bluff, but to minimize our loss against Ax. Also, if we do go for a check here, he'd be more inclined to call us with a PP.
      So if we go check, it's a check\fold flop? He won't bet his PPs vs us, right?
      And we it goes check\check, would we bet turn ourselves? If yes, we play check again on the river? Won't our hand be face up for him to make a solid bet to force us to fold in this case?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      The good thing for us here is that people to play their hands, not ours, so if it goes check/check on the flop, we can take two streets of value from worse.

      If he bets I'd fold there since as I mentioned before, people don't tend to bluff a lot in these spots.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      A little addition to the hand, hero should 3-bet bigger pre- he is oop and both players are 140bb deep effectively ;)