[NL2-NL10] Nl 5 AK

    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      How do I proceed postflop? On the turn I try to fold out hands lik 88 and 99

      iPoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 41.4 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
      UTG: 105.4 BB (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 18)
      MP: 123.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
      Hero (CO): 123.6 BB
      BTN: 99.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
      SB: 22.4 BB (VPIP: 19.77, PFR: 18.60, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 89)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:heart: K:spade:

      fold, MP raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, MP calls 4 BB

      Flop: (13.4 BB, 2 players) 3:spade: 2:club: 3:heart:
      MP checks, Hero bets 10 BB, MP calls 10 BB

      Turn: (33.4 BB, 2 players) T:diamond:
      MP checks, Hero bets 19 BB, MP raises to 38 BB, fold

      MP wins 68 BB
  • 7 replies
    • cutegoldfish
      cutegoldfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 4,335
      I don't agree with the bets on the flop and turn, I expect him to be calling close to 100% of his range on the flop and I don't think any pair is folding the turn. I prefer checking back flops and bluff catching turns or rivers I think that's more pprofitable.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Hi,

      I think flop cbet is standard. He might have some random overcards there that are just to fold on one bet oop. I think bluff-cathcing against unk is hard as his 3-bet calling range should include those broadways, pp's and there's no guarantee that he will bluff us post-flop. I'd need to have more spesific reads on him.

      I'd check-back turn and see what river brings us.
    • cutegoldfish
      cutegoldfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 4,335
      hi CPallo,

      the usual would be to just bet this flop but we might want to think if checking back is more profitable.

      suppose he has a hand like AJ QK QJ here, what will he be thinking? board is dry he has 2 overs he'll probably call the flop. you might want to look through some of your hands where you CB a flop in a 3betpot when the flop looks like 223, 334 ,335, kind of flops and you realise you get a tonne of calls, because their range usually contains a pocketpair or 2 overcards which either is not folding.



      imagine that you are MP and called and checked flop and turn and the person who 3betted you checked back and you are there sitting with KQ or QJ, the possiblity of you winning is low, would you bet to bluff off the river? If you are passive you could possibly check but many people would usually bet here. and his calling range in the MP would be more often broadways than pocket pairs.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Originally posted by cutegoldfish
      hi CPallo,

      the usual would be to just bet this flop but we might want to think if checking back is more profitable.

      suppose he has a hand like AJ QK QJ here, what will he be thinking? board is dry he has 2 overs he'll probably call the flop. you might want to look through some of your hands where you CB a flop in a 3betpot when the flop looks like 223, 334 ,335, kind of flops and you realise you get a tonne of calls, because their range usually contains a pocketpair or 2 overcards which either is not folding.



      imagine that you are MP and called and checked flop and turn and the person who 3betted you checked back and you are there sitting with KQ or QJ, the possiblity of you winning is low, would you bet to bluff off the river? If you are passive you could possibly check but many people would usually bet here. and his calling range in the MP would be more often broadways than pocket pairs.
      Agree, we are often ahead of those broadways and we need not to be afraid. But what if we meet 2x3/4 size of a pot bets here? We can't be sure at all whether he is bluffing or not with only 8 hands of him. If we had like 40 hands we would most likely now something about his post-flop tendencies (like AF of 0.5 or 10.0). Now we are just guessing.

      I think benefits here when we are ip with flop bet are:

      1) We can get value from those broadways from time to time - they just don't believe we have a hand and randoms rarely ch/r here with e.g QJ.

      2) We can always check turn, and on blank river it's easy for villain to bet as a bluff with QJ when missed. And we can call, coz we look very weak here when betting only the flop.

      Downside is, we can't get 88 etc. to fold on that flop bet, we don't get free card and he won't bluff us 2 streets oop. But is there any guarantee that he would do that anyway, even if we check flop?

      --> Against unk. I'd rather try to take the pot down on flop, check-back turn and re-evaluate when we are IP.
    • cutegoldfish
      cutegoldfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 4,335
      lets say he bets out turn and river, what do you think hes doing it with? usually i would see them take one shot and give it up after being called, so i would interpret one bet on the turn as a stab to try to take down the pot and a continued bet on the river for value with a good hand and fold AK.

      1) you could bet against broadways for value but i dont expect QJ to be check/raising, they are more often check/calling.

      2) this plan is good too and i think hes bluffing QJ after calling the flop when we checked turn, possibly even better than my line.

      3) no there is no guarantee hes bluffing but they would likely do it after we show weakness. if you are still thinking of folding out 88-99 here you are on the wrong page, dont try to make somebody fold a good hand (you gotta try very hard), thats not where the money in poker comes from, it comes from making people fold weak hands and getting value from other's strong hands.

      i got no issues with you taking the pot down immediately, I'm challenging the 2 bets to fold out a strong hand on the turn. you might want to check your CB stat, how much are you CBetting?
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Originally posted by cutegoldfish
      lets say he bets out turn and river, what do you think hes doing it with? usually i would see them take one shot and give it up after being called, so i would interpret one bet on the turn as a stab to try to take down the pot and a continued bet on the river for value with a good hand and fold AK.

      1) you could bet against broadways for value but i dont expect QJ to be check/raising, they are more often check/calling.

      2) this plan is good too and i think hes bluffing QJ after calling the flop when we checked turn, possibly even better than my line.

      3) no there is no guarantee hes bluffing but they would likely do it after we show weakness. if you are still thinking of folding out 88-99 here you are on the wrong page, dont try to make somebody fold a good hand (you gotta try very hard), thats not where the money in poker comes from, it comes from making people fold weak hands and getting value from other's strong hands.

      i got no issues with you taking the pot down immediately, I'm challenging the 2 bets to fold out a strong hand on the turn. you might want to check your CB stat, how much are you CBetting?
      Okay, guess we are having just communication problem :D I'm not making 2 bets here ever unless I have spesific reads that someone folds turns like 70 %. Here I don't have it --> Cback.

      I think my cbet on single-raised pots is between 60-70, less on turn and river ofc. On 3-bet pots I can't come up with it now, but it's quite high, too, as villains are quite weak on this level and often give up OOP w/o hit.
    • cutegoldfish
      cutegoldfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 4,335
      your CB probably works fine, i used to CB alot on these boards too, until I realized its possibly more profitable to check back and bluffcatch.