[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL20, JTs

    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      Hero (SB): $21.00
      BB: $20.75
      UTG: $27.70
      CO: $35.20 - I had about 100 hands on him playing 22/17. Steal from CO 25, steal from BU 65. Fold to 3bet 45. Villain was quite aggressive preflop with many 3bets. I 3bet him once on different table when he minraised BU and than called my 3bet. Than folded on 522 flop. No other info I'm afraid.
      BTN: $18.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is SB with T :spade: J :spade:
      1 fold, CO raises to $0.60, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.20, 1 fold, CO calls $1.60

      Flop: ($4.60) 9 :club: T :diamond: 5 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.60, CO calls $2.60

      Turn: ($9.80) 3 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $4.90, Hero raises to $16.20, CO...

      I play my overpairs and good draws also like this. I would appreciate some advice on what lines to take when I hit a piece of flop like here.


      Thanks!
  • 7 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi Zobu,

      Cbetting the flop is perfectly fine and I would do the same. Betting 1/2 would be the standard here.

      However, what are we doing on the turn? We can't expect a ton of calls from worse nor can we expect better to fold so what's the purpose of the bet?

      I think you can go both ways there meaning that you can bet or ck/call. If villain has shown any aggro tendencies or floats postflop then ck/call is fine (although he did fold on really dry board before)>
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      Well, yeah, I have this fishy thinking. I do understand that when I c/r allin than almost never worse hand will call and better will fold. But i don't like the alternatives: I don't like c/f because that seems too weak, and also I'm not comfortable c/c as that leaves me to a difficult river decision. If I c/r than at least I get villains bet when he floats and also I have made kind of a stand and maybe villain will not mess with me so much in the future. Sometimes I wonder how was I able to beat higher stakes with leaks like this. lol

      What is our plan for the river if we bet or c/c the turn?


      Thanks again!
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by zobupasts
      Well, yeah, I have this fishy thinking. I do understand that when I c/r allin than almost never worse hand will call and better will fold. But i don't like the alternatives: I don't like c/f because that seems too weak, and also I'm not comfortable c/c as that leaves me to a difficult river decision. If I c/r than at least I get villains bet when he floats and also I have made kind of a stand and maybe villain will not mess with me so much in the future. Sometimes I wonder how was I able to beat higher stakes with leaks like this. lol

      What is our plan for the river if we bet or c/c the turn?


      Thanks again!
      It depends on the river but we are most likely ck/calling without any other additional reads.

      I think your ck/shove would be fine if villain would stack off ligther there... like betting weaker made hands and calling.
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      It depends on the river but we are most likely ck/calling without any other additional reads.
      On what river cards are we folding?
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by zobupasts
      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      It depends on the river but we are most likely ck/calling without any other additional reads.
      On what river cards are we folding?
      I'll flip this back to you. What cards do you think are bad for our hand and good for villains range? In fact, what range do you think villain calls preflop and flop with that would bet turn/river?
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      To be honest I was surprised when you said that our plan is to c/c most of the river cards. I thought that we will c/f for sure unless we improve to twopair or trips because I don't expect an average NL20 reg to bluff on the river $11 into $20 when it seems that we wanna see showdown.

      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      I'll flip this back to you. What cards do you think are bad for our hand and good for villains range? In fact, what range do you think villain calls preflop and flop with that would bet turn/river?
      I expect villain to bet turn and river with his value range of course. I think he will bet the turn with his floats, probably most draws, but as I said- I have no idea if he is capable to bluff river with these floats and missed draws. I usually presume that regs can't bluff river until I see them capable of doing so.

      If you say that we are c/c most rivers and there are some cards that we will fold to than my guess is that those cards will be the ones that complete straights. Cards that help QJ, 87, 76. I'm really confused.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by zobupasts
      To be honest I was surprised when you said that our plan is to c/c most of the river cards. I thought that we will c/f for sure unless we improve to twopair or trips because I don't expect an average NL20 reg to bluff on the river $11 into $20 when it seems that we wanna see showdown.

      Originally posted by BogdanPS
      I'll flip this back to you. What cards do you think are bad for our hand and good for villains range? In fact, what range do you think villain calls preflop and flop with that would bet turn/river?
      I expect villain to bet turn and river with his value range of course. I think he will bet the turn with his floats, probably most draws, but as I said- I have no idea if he is capable to bluff river with these floats and missed draws. I usually presume that regs can't bluff river until I see them capable of doing so.

      If you say that we are c/c most rivers and there are some cards that we will fold to than my guess is that those cards will be the ones that complete straights. Cards that help QJ, 87, 76. I'm really confused.
      I may have misread your assumptions on the player but you assumed, going in, that he is aggressive.

      I can't see many aggro players betting one street on the turn blank and then giving up. However, if your experience with the regs there is that they usually give up (like at nl 10-nl5) UI on the river then we do have a ck/fold.

      But I feel that we can/should expect some bluffs on many rivers given that our hand looks on the weaker side.

      I think one of the worse cards for us is a Q and low cards are tricky because villain may not bluff again there.