How do you shake off the calling stations?

    • changyUK
      changyUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2013 Posts: 16
      I just cannot get these people to fold no matter what I bet? I played a Tournament this morning starting at 10:00 UK time. It is now 14:40 UK time and I'm out. There was no skill in my play, it was just a case of close your eyes and pray you didn't suffer a suckout.

      At one stage I did not play a hand for 75 minutes, not even my blind because there was a preflop steal/raise on virtually every orbit. I would have total trash in the SB/BB and certainly nothing I could play back with. So I had to sit and suffer.

      I then got dealt QQ in MP so I made a 4BB raise as there was one limper. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER BEHIND ME CALLED!! ?( ?(

      The flop came K 7 2 which normally would suggest I have a possible chance of being ahead against one player and depending on how they bet I would soon know if I was good or not. SB/BB checked but the original raiser bet 1/2 the pot. I had to fold with so many behind me to act. If I call then experience at the table says one or more will call and someone would more than likely shove.

      I was right and the player to my left raised all in. Three more players called and the turn came 3 and river 3.

      The cards were shown and the winner had K3 os!!!!! Now I've played this game long enough to see stupid play but that play was right up there! The other two both held a K!!

      I actually felt happy to get away with just a loss of 4BB.

      I sat back and waited patiently, getting a few plays from the BB and flopping a flush with junk to pick up some handy chips. I then had some real bonus chips when I had QQ again on the button this time. It was a family game with all but one of the players calling preflop. I shoved (a bit of angst I freely admit) and just the BB called. The cards came over 4 Q 6 :D :D and he was showing Q :club: T :club: I couldn't believe my luck.

      I just sat back and watched as the others raised re-raised etc. It was like a game of snap as opposed to Poker.

      I was now of the opinion that a huge raise or a shove was the way to get heads-up to take your chances. I was dealt A :spade: K :spade: so I raised 10BB from the cut-off - my theory failed and three players called me to see a flop of K :diamond: J :spade: 9 :spade: So I had TPTK and a draw to the nut flush. The BB shoved, I naturally called as did the button.
      Turn 8 :spade: :D
      River 9 :heart:

      The BB had 9 :diamond: 8 :club:

      That crippled me and I lost with JJ to Q5 when a Q hit the turn!

      So I ask again, how on earth can you beat these players? They are like Zombies in the Walking Dead, you kill off 6-7 of them and another crowd appear!! These players had VPIP of 65-90 and their lifetime profit varied from -$6K to - $16K!! They're not winning overall but they're kicking my @rse big style at the moment!!

      The other thing I have noticed is they fight each other for a pot by calling all in when they have a pair or two pair on a board that is showing flush and straight draws are very likely. Somehow their middle pair holds up and they take down a monster! Why can't I do that?
  • 10 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,859
      Originally posted by changyUK
      I was now of the opinion that a huge raise or a shove was the way to get heads-up to take your chances.
      this actually. if everyone is still calling throw another extra 5bb or something :D

      your equity with premiums will just be severely crippled in huge multiway pots.
    • changyUK
      changyUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2013 Posts: 16
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      Originally posted by changyUK
      I was now of the opinion that a huge raise or a shove was the way to get heads-up to take your chances.
      this actually. if everyone is still calling throw another extra 5bb or something :D

      your equity with premiums will just be severely crippled in huge multiway pots.
      Yes I agree, Tomaloc that is the conclusion I reached. I know EV, pot odds, outs, etc off by heart but you'd think that after 5 hours of play people would realised you're not playing junk. However, it is also obvious that most of these players are picking their nose, watching TV etc and not really paying any attention to the table. They just come back to their PC when it beeps, they see two cards and hit call. They think odds are 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 etc

      I always laugh when I read the chat after a suckout. The poor loser types something like "How did you call with K3?" when he's made a 5BB raise and the suckout merchant calls out of position. The reply is usually "I won didn't I?"

      Oh well I guess it's almost a shove or fold mentality for now!

      Thanks for the reply though Tomaloc, I do appreciate some feedback.
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      I just cannot get these people to fold no matter what I bet?
      That's why they're calling stations. Don't bluff them and you'll be fine. Just value bet, value bet, value bet and value bet some more.

      Calling stations are soooo easy to play against. Yes they'll call you down with bottom pair and might just river trips against your top two pair (for example), but you got the money in good with the fish drawing nearly dead. You can't hope for a much better spot tbh.

      If they call you with K3 pre when you have QQ, great, you're a 70% favorite.

      And if there's a ton of multi way pots, just value bet bigger, both pre and post flop.

      Can't stress it enough, playing against calling stations is all about making strong value bets and not trying to bluff them. Just be patient and they'll just hand you their money.
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      you just make the best hand and keep betting.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Poker rule #1: Don't bluff calling stations
    • changyUK
      changyUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2013 Posts: 16
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      Poker rule #1: Don't bluff calling stations
      True that!!!

      Poker rule #1: Don't bluff calling stations
      Poker Rule #2: Don't forget rule #1
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      In b4 ''Move up to where they respect your raises''
    • changyUK
      changyUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2013 Posts: 16
      Originally posted by dogma18
      In b4 ''Move up to where they respect your raises''
      Well up to $20 thus far I have seen very little to convince me they respect the raises. I just played a $20 SnG and played 52 hands without seeing a flop. I was then dealt JJ in the cut-off and made a 5BB raise to allow for two limpers. The button SB BB and the limpers called me. There was a shove all in on a K T 5 rainbow flop. I folded and the button SB and BB called. I mean they can't all have a hand. It was won with K8 os!!! The stats for these fish from HM2 shows they are truly mental calling stations and despite losses well into 4 figures some into 5 figures they just keep playing and calling.

      I was in another tourney and again I had Nada in terms of cards. Thankfully it was a slow format so my M was acceptable. It was about hand 60 when I was dealt A :heart: A :diamond: so rather than go up against multiple opponents I shoved from MP. I had not played a hand for about an hour but I still had 5 callers! Naturally some utter donk hit a straight having called with 7 :club: 9 :club: There was Q9 T8 all in the mix! I thought perhaps we were playing Go Fish!!!

      So I have stopped for the night apart from one tourney which I have been playing for the past 5.5 hours.
    • changyUK
      changyUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2013 Posts: 16
      Just to add some good news to this thread I managed to win a big pot from a fish who chased to the river with Q :heart: 5 :heart: on a A :spade: J :heart: 6 :heart: and I held A :heart: K :heart:

      I thought perhaps I was dead with him catching 2 pair or something crazy but he showed it was nothing more than a busted flush, one that he would have lost had another :heart: hit the board as I was holding the nut flush draw!!

      So there is some hope for me after all! :D
    • legand73
      legand73
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2010 Posts: 4,135
      Hey changyUK

      I hate when there are a couple of calling stations at a table and that really kills your respect because if you raise and a couple calling stations call then every joe will just come along to see a flop and your premiums lose heaps of equity. But yeah the good thing about calling stations is that you can just value bet them wide heads up and they'll chase their draws all day.

      Regards,
      Luke