Strange play from a good regular

    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Hi guys,
      not sure this is the right place for this question..
      Anyway, I'm very curious about a hand I played yesterday at the final table of a turbo MTT.

      I know most of the players at the table as they are all regulars. and obv they know me as well. My image is very tight, with some moves but usually tight.
      Btw the structure of the tournament doesn't let us play much any more and most of the remain players have around 10/15BB.

      I don't have any dubs about my play, 9BB, SB vs BB, AJs, pay structure doesn't change much until fourth place and I'm 7 out of 8. This is a clear push for me.
      What I can't really understand is why a good (and big winner) regular make this call!
      He knows I'm not a any2cards pusher-especially with this structure and against the chipleader. So he should give me a range of 64/65%, but even if he is giving me a 70% how can he calls? He needs to be at 41% to make it profitable and imo he knows this and he knows as well that is gonna be at best at 35%. So I really can't figure out his call knowing who he is.
      Here is the hand, I apologize but I couldn't convert it in a better way with universal player..

      History for hand T5-97997733-137 (TOURNAMENT: "3500€ GTD Ultima Spiaggia Turbo", O-4924-1, buy-in: €37) *****
      Start hand: Mon May 13 02:13:30 CEST 2013
      Table: Table #5 [97997733] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 700/1400, ante: 175, Chips)
      Hero: UrBoooring
      Button: seat 5
      Players in round: 8 (9)
      Seat 1: Peppe1988 (21265)
      Seat 2: jezebel87 (22276)
      Seat 3: smurgggg (18744)
      Seat 5: Angelica1988 (20755)
      Seat 6: UrBoooring (12778)
      Seat 7: gioriz (34240)
      Seat 8: CutOff59 (16021)
      Seat 10: 50u1r34d3r (13921)
      UrBoooring posts ante 175
      gioriz posts ante 175
      CutOff59 posts ante 175
      50u1r34d3r posts ante 175
      Peppe1988 posts ante 175
      jezebel87 posts ante 175
      smurgggg posts ante 175
      Angelica1988 posts ante 175
      UrBoooring posts small blind (700)
      gioriz posts big blind (1400)
      ---
      Dealing pocket cards
      Dealing to UrBoooring: [Jh, Ah]
      CutOff59 folds
      50u1r34d3r folds
      Peppe1988 folds
      jezebel87 folds
      smurgggg folds
      Angelica1988 folds
      UrBoooring raises 11903 to 12603 [all in]
      gioriz calls 11203
      --- Dealing flop [Td, Jd, Qh]
      --- Dealing turn [Ts]
      --- Dealing river [9h]
      ---
      Summary:
      Main pot: 26606 won by gioriz (26606)
      Rake taken: €0
      Seat 1: Peppe1988 (21090), net: -175
      Seat 2: jezebel87 (22101), net: -175
      Seat 3: smurgggg (18569), net: -175
      Seat 5: Angelica1988 (20580), net: -175
      Seat 6: UrBoooring (0), net: -12778, [Jh, Ah] (TWO_PAIR JACK, TEN)
      Seat 7: gioriz (48068), net: +13828, [Kd, 2c] (STRAIGHT KING)
      Seat 8: CutOff59 (15846), net: -175
      Seat 10: 50u1r34d3r (13746), net: -175
  • 11 replies
    • rossd152
      rossd152
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.04.2011 Posts: 19
      You have 9 bigs, He has K high and you have him covered thats whats he's thinking and to be fair its not the worst spot for him to try and double up. Dont think this play is bad at all.
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by marcepoker17
      but even if he is giving me a 70% how can he calls?
      Correction

      Actually if he's giving me a 70% his call is right, but 70% means I push q3o+ j5o+ 43s+ and as I said before he should know that's not my style and anyway he has 23BB so how can he think it a +EV call?
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by rossd152
      You have 9 bigs, He has K high and you have him covered thats whats he's thinking and to be fair its not the worst spot for him to try and double up. Dont think this play is bad at all.
      Hey ross,

      first, thank you for your reply,

      second, being a good regular his "thinking", as you call it, should be given by a push call range and imo k2o is not in this range.

      It's true that he has me covered but he doesn't double up with this, he can add 11bb and loose 8, having a 30/35% is not good imo.

      I don't think it's a bad play if the play is been made for a reason that makes the play +EV, as a regular good player should be playing with this goal, imo.
    • gusma
      gusma
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.10.2007 Posts: 5,727
      hey guys,

      reg needs ~ 42% for a profitable call , if i did not get the numbers wrong. And he certainly has that vs a sb 9bbs shove.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 44.64% 41.80% 2.84% { K2o }
      MP3 55.36% 52.52% 2.84% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J6o+, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by gusma
      hey guys,

      reg needs ~ 42% for a profitable call , if i did not get the numbers wrong. And he certainly has that vs a sb 9bbs shove.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 44.64% 41.80% 2.84% { K2o }
      MP3 55.36% 52.52% 2.84% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 94s+, 84s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J6o+, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o }

      Hi Gusma,

      Thank you very much for your reply!


      Do you think thats standard even if the reg knows the range of sb push is 35% (22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, A2o+, K8o+, QTo+, JTo)?
      In that case shouldn't adjust to it?
      And in your opinion shouldn't he adjust as well on the collapse structure(big stack final table 24BB)?

      I agree he needs a 41% equity, but I tought he would have known that my range there is much tighter, especially vs the chipleader. So he would never be more then 30/35% in that spot vs me, in this case would be the wrong call I guess..!

      Thank you again for your reply!!!
    • gusma
      gusma
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.10.2007 Posts: 5,727
      The point here is that you are the short stack , and at this point its expected that in a situation like this you shove at least 65% of your range and not 35%.So that makes the call +ev.

      btw , if you are not shoving a wide range as 65%+ here you should work on your shoving range and turbo games.
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by gusma
      The point here is that you are the short stack , and at this point its expected that in a situation like this you shove at least 65% of your range and not 35%.So that makes the call +ev.

      btw , if you are not shoving a wide range as 65%+ here you should work on your shoving range and turbo games.

      Hi Gusma,

      I understand your point, and my range there is 65%, but my point was that he's 23bb and he's the chipleader, average is 12,5bb, there is no much point for him to call with worse the 35%(33+, A2s+, K3s+, Q5s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A3o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o) imo, he's risking almost half stack plus he knows my range is not 100% but 65%:

      I know and agree that in a normal, or even a turbo, tounament with normal structure the chipleader with 120bb calls (down to 30/35bb), as he should, with k2, but I think in different situations, where you have less then 30bb, in a final table where pay is top 3 heavy, the flat on bb with k2o vs a tight player where the equity is gonna be at best 35/65 is not a +ev move.

      Please tell me if you think I'm off with my thinking process.
      Thank you for the reply
    • gusma
      gusma
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 07.10.2007 Posts: 5,727
      The main point here is exactly that its a turbo tournament , so you should take every little +ev situation you can get , especially if its a higher BI , with tough field.

      I understand your point , the call is +ev but might not be optimal. I do not know about that because I do not know the dynamic of the table at the time. But what I can tell you is , if it was a tough game with tough players I would problly be making this call 90% of the time.
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by gusma
      The main point here is exactly that its a turbo tournament , so you should take every little +ev situation you can get , especially if its a higher BI , with tough field.

      I understand your point , the call is +ev but might not be optimal. I do not know about that because I do not know the dynamic of the table at the time. But what I can tell you is , if it was a tough game with tough players I would problly be making this call 90% of the time.
      Ok, so it's standard and he just didn't adjust, it's not strange as I thought!

      I knew it wasn't a bad play, I just didn't expect that a good reg that knows me and played thousands of hands against me wouldn't adjust to it and I was hoping somebody could explain his thinking process.

      Thank you very much for the explanation.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      I agree with gusma. The play is quite standard against a regular. Sure, he could have adapted to your playstyle. On the other hand most regulars play multiple tables and won't adapt as much as you might think. Therefore he might have called against the standard SB range, where he would have been perfectly fine.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by Asaban
      I agree with gusma. The play is quite standard against a regular. Sure, he could have adapted to your playstyle. On the other hand most regulars play multiple tables and won't adapt as much as you might think. Therefore he might have called against the standard SB range, where he would have been perfectly fine.

      Regards,
      Asaban
      Hey Asaban,

      That's what I thought as well, I found it a bit strange bc we where playing at the same table for a while before in the tournament.

      I multytable as well but I always check for regulars.. :) This doesn't mean he has too.. ;)

      Anyway there are other reasons as well for him not to notice it in that hand so I guess it's ok.

      Thank you for ur reply

      Regards