[NL20-NL50] [SH]ZoomNL25 - ATs

    • bosiati
      bosiati
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 697
      Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $14.97 (59.9 bb)
      SB: $15.16 (60.6 bb)
      BB: $22.18 (88.7 bb)
      Hero (UTG): $25 (100 bb)
      MP: $11.52 (46.1 bb)
      CO: $50.06 (200.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with A T
      Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, SB calls $0.65, BB folds

      Flop: ($1.75) Q 6 A (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.10, SB calls $1.10

      Turn: ($3.95) T (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $2.90, SB raises to $5.80, Hero raises to $23.15 and is all-in, SB calls $7.51 and is all-in

      River: ($30.57) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Hello!

      Stats
      3 hands 67/33 (unknown, but maybe fish)

      Flop turn Cb is standard.
      Was good the turn b/shove?

      Thanks
      Bosiati
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hey B,

      The turn completes a bunch of draws your opponent could have and you still lose vs AQ and 66. I think getting it in is a bit overplaying.

      I would personally not cbet the flop here.. What range do you think your opponent will call with on the flop and how often is that?
    • bosiati
      bosiati
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 697
      Hello!
      Thank you for your answer!

      I think in this flop from a 60bb player, can call the flop some flushdraws, som gutshots like TJ, JK, so a lot of draws. also can calls here Ax, Qx. So there are a lot of worst hands then me.
      So I think in this flop, Cb is obligatory.

      Turn is question.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I strongly disagree that cbetting the flop here 100% of the time is best against an uknown SB caller.

      This is what you get called by imo on the flop:


      Board: A:club: 6:club: Q:diamond:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    64.21%  58.83%   5.38% { AsTs }
      MP3    35.79%  30.41%   5.38% { 66, AJs-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, AQo-ATo, KTo+, QJo }


      The value you get is thinner than you think imo. This is why in a spot where you also don't want to stack off plus you cannot blindly cbet, you also check behind 'to give up' a part of your range, you protect that part with some Ax like ATs since you don't have that many in your range. Imagine having KK, KQ, JJ.. Would you cbet here?

      On the turn, his stacking off range will probably be somthing like this:


      Board: A:club: 6:club: Q:diamond:  T:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    22.61%  17.05%   5.55% { AsTs }
      MP3    77.39%  71.84%   5.55% { 66, ATs, KJs, QTs+, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, AQo, ATo, KJo, AdJc, AhJc, AsJc, AcJh }



      Which makes it really bad for you.. given the minraise, call for odds.. you are ahead enough and get to play river IP. Shipping against it is a bit of an overplay since you have no folding equity.
    • bosiati
      bosiati
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 697
      Hello!
      Thanks!

      I think in this moderately drawheavy board when I miss Cbet I make a mistake. And every time, when I have more than ~50% equity( - rake) I have value in the hand. So its a standard value+protection bet. But I don't thinking about balancing my range here vs unknown players, particulary player looks a fish. I think the only mistake in this flop Cb is the size. About 1.30-1.40$ is enough.

      "Imagine having KK, KQ, JJ.. Would you cbet here?" Its depend on, how much draws in his range. Because there are more Ax hands, and "better then me" hands, than draws I think with theese the ch behind is the best option, I don't have value because against his calling range my eqity is decrease about 30-35%, but I have showdown equity.

      I think there are very some air hands in his flop call range, because he shows J9o.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hindsight is quite amazing... After you see his hand the whole analysis changes because you can see what was wrong with the initial assumptions.

      If the average unknown is just as spewy as him, you can definitely cbet for value and bet/call turn.


      @KK: when you only check back hands so weak you usually are bleeding money in those spots, so you do need some reasonably strong hands in your range.