AAxx/KKxx OOP with missed flop play.

    • Glazenburg
      Glazenburg
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 100
      Hey guys,

      Lately i changed to play some PLO25. Hold'm started to get really old to me. I watched a few coaching session on monday and got the basic idea of it. Although the coaching is FR and i play SH I'm doing quite ok regarding to winnings.

      Lately I'm experiencing a lot of trouble playing my KKxx and AAxx from early position. If i pot from this position the bet is way to low to scare of anybody so I mostly get involved in a 3-way or 4-way hand in which i'm OOP on the flop. This situation is really hard to master for me, I have no clue what so ever to do when i'm not having top set or drawing to any streets of flushs. Should i always give up these hands OOP, 1 barrel, 2 barrels or checkraise?

      Any quidelines woudl be very much appreciated!
  • 9 replies
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hello Glazenburg,

      Are you playing FR or SH?

      In FR - depending on the strength of your AAxx / KKxx hands you can mostly treat them as drawing hands and limp them from early position. This also has the benefit of disguising your hand once the flop hits and you e.g. hit topset. Especially with KKxx I would not raise from early unless it was a seriously strong hand.

      On the flop I rarely continuation bet unless the board is plausible to have hit me and there are only 1-2 people in the hand. With 3-4 callers I would simply check and play according to my outs.

      In SH its definitely different but I would still be careful about overplaying your hands from OOP. Since position is so important I try to avoid situations where I am OOP in a multiway raised pot without a hand that can hit in at least 2-3 ways.

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • Glazenburg
      Glazenburg
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 100
      I play SH. There are almost no FR tables on FT, so I can't wait till SH training is starting!! :rolleyes:

      I already had the idea that i was overplaying them on the flop OOP by c-betting these hands too often, get called and drawn out on the turn or river becuase my 'naked' aces where to obviously beat by 2 pair, set, straight or flush on turn or river.

      I wonder however if this rarely c-betting isn't a too weak style. Don't you get bluffed out of the pot too often. Raising pre-flop and checking on the flop sure shows your weak.

      Grtzz
    • Jim9137
      Jim9137
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      Two things: 1. People love to crack aces and 2. OOP is always bad.

      I'd only contibet on flops that are particularly dry (and as such as such haven't probably hit anyone, eg. Q72 or 822 type of boards), or generally look scary for people without a good hand (K27 suited /especially/ if you have ace of hearts - don't overdo this, people might not fold their flushes at PL25 - or something like KK3 type of boards). You can usually get the pot for cheap when the board looks obvious that you hit your hand, when you bet into 2 people out of position!

      However, usually with cruddy AA or KK hands, I'd just limp and do what chenny said. Even at short handed, you need to have good kickers to play out of positions with hands that are more often than not marginal on the flop against many people.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Silver
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by Jim9137
      Two things: 1. People love to crack aces and 2. OOP is always bad.

      I'd only contibet on flops that are particularly dry (and as such as such haven't probably hit anyone, eg. Q72 or 822 type of boards), or generally look scary for people without a good hand (K27 suited /especially/ if you have ace of hearts - don't overdo this, people might not fold their flushes at PL25 - or something like KK3 type of boards). You can usually get the pot for cheap when the board looks obvious that you hit your hand, when you bet into 2 people out of position!

      However, usually with cruddy AA or KK hands, I'd just limp and do what chenny said. Even at short handed, you need to have good kickers to play out of positions with hands that are more often than not marginal on the flop against many people.
      it was soy ;) . but yes, i agree with both of you obv :D .
    • Glazenburg
      Glazenburg
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 100
      Thanks guys!

      I already saw the SH training video. Not overplaying and more often limping my JJ,QQ,KK and AA in EP works great.. and unless you hit the flop like this..

      I just c\f until something good comes on the turn or river.



      This guy was 7:1 dog with only a K high FD and some runner runner two pair or set outs.. :D

      I would have been a underdog against a set, but imo no fold possible here..




      Grtzz
    • Floating
      Floating
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.07.2007 Posts: 132
      Originally posted by Glazenburg


      I already saw the SH training video.
      where?
    • Glazenburg
      Glazenburg
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 100
      http://de.pokerstrategy.com/video/1651

      Pretty nice vid imo

      u should be able to understand PLO german though ;-)
    • Glazenburg
      Glazenburg
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 100
      BTW... Is this new German PLO coaching for gold members on Mondays SH?

      If yes, that would be great!!
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by Glazenburg
      u should be able to understand PLO german though ;-)
      i understood when he said video, aces and gutshot :D