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river valuejam

    • zumpar
      zumpar
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      just a simple question, happened to me a lot for the last few days

      what is your river value range in these spots?:
      you are otb, 3bet MP/CO who calls


      flop: J22r
      turn: 8o
      river Ao


      you bet ~2/3 pot on both streets, have about 2/3-3/4 jam on the river

      aside for ofc jamming JJ/AA/AJ, how wide would you jam here vs an unknown?


      pretty much asking about these 3 hands....

      KK/QQ/KJ

      kk/qq fall into the exact same category, KJ is a little weaker cause i guess some players would sometimes just call QQ vs 3b oop some of the time...

      QJ is ultra thin so im not even considering it

      would you jam these 3 hands for value? is it very thin?

      or would you just like always c back these hands here?
      i found out i make very thin vbets on nl20/50 and i just valueown myself all day long

      thanks
  • 4 replies
    • double2
      double2
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      I think it mostly depends on if villains calls the 3bets with KK/AA.

      I'm shipping KK for sure, all Ax I might 3bet as bluff ofc. I think QQ is a shove too. KJ gets kinda close, villain has to call with a hand like 99-TT which maybe a bit optimistic on our part. I villain call pre flop KK+ I think it's deff a check.
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Do you have QQ/QJ/JJ/KJ in your 3b range v mp?
    • VaskataBuci
      VaskataBuci
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.08.2011 Posts: 2,438

      KK/QQ/KJ

      kk/qq fall into the exact same category, KJ is a little weaker cause i guess some players would sometimes just call QQ vs 3b oop some of the time...

      QJ is ultra thin so im not even considering it

      Definitely not for value. I don't think there are many players that will call 3 streets with 99-TT type of hands, even QQ is in doubt.
    • yougotfelted51
      yougotfelted51
      Silver
      Joined: 04.02.2010 Posts: 1,276
      i think one of the issues here is that 99/TT likely does not make it to the river, and if it does, is not calling once the A drops.

      i think a lot of villain's ranges at NL50 and below (especially if they aren't good regs) will have a decent amount of AJ by the time it gets to the river.

      as a standard, i would check back QQ/KK in this spot, as it is tough to see many hands that will check/call us here that we beat.