Bad plays in SnG's

    • bckdrflush
      bckdrflush
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2008 Posts: 154
      I see (and even sometime make) bad plays in SnG's, sometimes maddeningly so. I'd like to start a list of some and see what people think about them. I'm not sure of my interpretations, so this could be a good learning thread for me.

      Why did they make this play.
      How do we exploit it, or avoid it.

      A. Betting/raising too much preflop (including out of position.)

      Why:

      1. The player has a big hand like QQ and doesn't want to face any opposition
      2. The player has a medium hand and wants to represent a better hand after the flop while minimizing opponents

      How:

      1. avoid the raiser with medium hands even in position on them, and of course raise with better hands. If we see that it's case 2, we can loosen up our 3bet range?

      B: Refusing to take out the small stack when they are big stack - playing tight with big stack at the bubble.

      Why:

      1. The player is selfish and thinks that if they just keep folding (even with moderately big blinds) they will make the money for sure, and probably 1st with their lead.
      2. They don't mind losing the blinds so long as the other players left are battling it out.

      How:

      1. Loosen up stealing range on the big stack especially if they have become a rock. If SB to the big stack BB, any two cards is a steal.
      2. Comment in the chat - 'thanks for the help buddy'

      C: Limping in from early position with a big hand like AA (I see this all the time)

      Why:

      1. The player thinks they are tricky and aren't satisfied with just taking the blinds down. They want a call and some play.

      How:

      1. Take the freeplay or call with a pocket or decent hand, and play check/fold unless you make a hand that beats an overpair
      2. Know the betting pattern of your opponent - esp first in, and if it's different this time with the limp, suspect this play also.

      D: donkbetting in a multiway pot.

      Why:

      1. The player wants to get value from a decent hand (TPTK) and is not afraid or aware of any draws or better hands.
      2. The player thinks that no one hit anything and can steal the pot with a donkbet and also reduce the number of opponents to bluff in later rounds.

      How:

      1. 3 bet with a made hand, call with odds to a draw, or try to stick around cheaply with a worse made hand - fold everything else.
  • 8 replies
    • douglasjastewart
      douglasjastewart
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2008 Posts: 51
      At the low levels, the over-valuation of any suited connectors or pocket pair, total ignorance of kickers, playing any hand with a face card, oh and of course betting with middle pair.

      That's the kind of shit that I've been seeing at $1 SnGs and today it totally broke me. 19 losses in a row. Infuriating. No reason for it except some retard calling with 58o after a big raise with jj only to catch two pair or trips.
    • Ellfish
      Ellfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.01.2008 Posts: 23
      I hate people who call 3BB or more raises preflop with any two suited cards like Q3s, K5s etc. Too often have these fish outdrawn me.
    • bckdrflush
      bckdrflush
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2008 Posts: 154
      How could I forget The Min Raise or complete from SB

      Why?
      1.Player has a monster hand and is trying to trap
      2.Has a weaker hand and wants to steal the blinds or see a flop cheaply

      How:
      1. if you suspect one, and have a decent hand can usually see cards cheap and get away on a bad flop easy. If you hit good, you'll break them almost certainly
      2. Reraise (or all in, if a decent hand, and blinds are big relative to stacks?
      3. if case 2, then call and bet out on the flop?
    • Grimzor
      Grimzor
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 421
      Originally posted by Ellfish
      I hate people who call 3BB or more raises preflop with any two suited cards like Q3s, K5s etc. Too often have these fish outdrawn me.
      Make note on them and play your hands carefully when there is flush draw possible. And if you hold strong hand and there is flush draw possible make them pay big to see next hand.

      And in my opinion tip about AA limpers to play check/fold unless you can beat overpair is a bit wrong. You cant play check/fold all the time because they limp many hands, not only big pairs. I personally make note on such players, play as usual or maybe slightly tighter but always consider possibility that they might have high overpair. So if i encounter resistance i try to keep pot small unless i have really strong hand.
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Originally posted by bckdrflush
      How could I forget The Min Raise or complete from SB

      Why?
      1.Player has a monster hand and is trying to trap
      2.Has a weaker hand and wants to steal the blinds or see a flop cheaply

      How:
      1. if you suspect one, and have a decent hand can usually see cards cheap and get away on a bad flop easy. If you hit good, you'll break them almost certainly
      2. Reraise (or all in, if a decent hand, and blinds are big relative to stacks?
      3. if case 2, then call and bet out on the flop?
      I actually really like this play. In the early stages I just see the flop and give up the blind unless I hit a very strong hand and in the later stages I push with pretty much the same hands I would steal from the SB myself with and take a lot of easy chips this way...
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      my opinion:
      (im playing low stakes 5,5$mostly)

      A) i cant agree at all coz my experience is that in early stages raising with premium hands 3BB is not good idea coz u only making good odds to other players ... many times if u raise 3-5BB u get called by 5players(many of them with pocket pairs waiting for set) with it sux... i think it is better sometimes to just steal blinds... many times if u raise a lot there is one donk with AJ AQ AT who push all in so u can easily double up...

      in midle stage of sng is good to always raise 3 or 2,5 xBB depends of BB...

      late stage i prefer shuffle or traping opponents

      B) maybe true but calling tight players with rags may produce problems in future (remind that most of strategy consist of folding to late stage and try to duble up with domination hands) if u have 6K and good player with 1k ,,, and he move all in with AQ and u holding A+rag suited... u can make a lot of trubles in future ... i prefer to steal them blinds(raising,shuffle) so they loosing in strange and fighting to another shotrstack when u fold... of course when they have 2-3 blinds i call with any 2cards most of time

      C)limping in ealry position with Aces is VERY STRONG strategy i think ... most of times at early stages your limp.. is raised and re-raised again (somtime players move all in) ... so u can easy call,move all in when comes to you turn...

      problem is that if there is no raise u CANT PLAY your AA strong ... if there are 5 players in the pot probably had minimum 2 pairs.. dont overplay your aces when there are many players in pot... u can easily fold and try it antoher time
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Originally posted by miskokvo
      ...
      ...
      ...

      C)limping in ealry position with Aces is VERY STRONG strategy i think ... most of times at early stages your limp.. is raised and re-raised again (somtime players move all in) ... so u can easy call,move all in when comes to you turn...

      problem is that if there is no raise u CANT PLAY your AA strong ... if there are 5 players in the pot probably had minimum 2 pairs.. dont overplay your aces when there are many players in pot... u can easily fold and try it antoher time
      I would actually like to hear what the coaches or high stakes players think about this. I noticed that a raise form early possition pretty much always just kills any action and I don't get any value out of my strongest hands and I'm wonderring how could I play that better...
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi guys,

      IMO, playing any strong hands trickily on low limits is suicide. You cant be sure their will be a raise behind. What if there is no raise behind? Our AA is now effectivly trash imo. I think aces should always be played strongly, as aggression pays off, specially in the low limits, as there are so many passive stations.

      If we raise aces from UTG and everyone folds, is that really so bad? I'd rather get 1.5 blinds playing good standard poker, than loose a stack playing passively.

      Regards,
      Stiev