NL10 SH MSS - Help Needed

  • 6 replies
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Platinum
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      Hi

      Are you playing normal tables or some fast fold variant?

      I would like you to post your "raise first in" / "unopened pfr" by position stats your fold to 3b, your 3bet vs position and your ev bb/100 by position to see if you have a positional upswing/downswing. And of course your open raise size by position.

      Also would be good to know if your following a specific SH MSS, like the silver articles in the columns section or your very own strategy.

      As for things I noticed straight off:
      -your 4bet ranges are very nitty in BU and CO. This can be due to sample size but 4-betting less than 3% means you are 4betting less than JJ+ AK+ which is ridiculous vs resteals. Unless the restealers are super nits.
      -your winrates are low in EP and CO. I think you can tighten up in EP because your gonna get CCed often in the lower limits and get into really marginal situations. The low winrate in CO can either be running bad or opening the wrong range vs the wrong players left to act.
      -I believe winning players aim for winrates of atleast -20bb/100 in SB and -40bb/100 in BB. So you need to improve your SB play, I would try doing this by adding your CC range to your 3bet range and not have a CC range at all. As for BB if your not in an upswing in BB just keep it up :s_grin: in fact I'm jealous, I'm running -42bb/100 in the BB at 50nl :s_frown:

      You could also mention at what network your playing incase someone else is playing MSS there and has some insight on how to play vs the player pool.

      As for me I have only played at Party and Ipoker but haven't played SH at lower than 20nl and always some fast fold variant. So you might have to take my advice with a grain of salt.

      edit: just realized you have hm1 and might not be able to post the all the stats I suggested but do try to post those you can.
    • srmico
      srmico
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 578
      Are you playing normal tables or some fast fold variant?


      Is this irony? haha I play normal SH tables at pokerstars.

      My EV$ is actually lower so it's not a downswing.

      I'm following the two silver articles, except for the open raises. I normally open 3bb, unless the BB is too loose (less than 60% fold to steal), that I open 4bb with JK+ A9+ 66+.

      Here are some of the stats you asked for:



      I just had an amazing seasson +20BI in 3000hands and now i'm even :s_cool: .....anyway i want to believe it was an upswing.

      I will try some of the changes you mentioned and any others you can give me.

      Thank you!

      Ps:sorry for my broken english :f_biggrin:
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Platinum
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      Good to hear your running good! :s_biggrin:

      But lets get to business! :pokerface:

      -Since your playing normal tables I assume that you table select and therefor will mostly be playing vs recreational players and that the regs will make plenty of calling mistakes since they are still playing 10nl. Unfortunately I cant help you in table selection because I am a table selection fish because I play fastfold. Nevertheless tight should be the way to go, since the player pool should be quite passive. I noticed you are a bit looser than the ranges in the articles. According to the chart your open raise ranges should be the following:

      EP 8% MP 11% CO 14.6% BU&SB 25%

      This should be your standard vs unknowns and situations your not certain about because these are solid ranges and you will be hard to exploit. I am not saying you should only follow the charts. You should not really need to add more hands to EP and MP but should mainly deviate in good spots at CO and BU so that you will have position and have an easier time playing. In the CO you should mainly widen your range if BU has a small 3bet and mainly plays fit or fold post-flop, in other cases stay tight. You should of course also think about the blinds but BU is more important in the CO. Also when you widen your range you can try opening smaller to 2.5x. On higher limits you might be able to go as low as 2x but at 10nl I doubt it will work often enough.

      As for your 4x adaption vs loose blind defends I think it might be too tight I would keep most of the BU range but fold suited connectors and A4s-A2s. But this would mainly be vs a calling station. If the player is very fit or fold post flop you could simply open 3.5-4x with the entire BU range or wider with intention of c-betting 2/3-3/4 pot and giving up vs resistance unless you have strong hand.

      WOW that was just open raising.

      -OK now for the big leak I found in your second post. You have a very low fold to 3b, which sounds good right? wrong! why? Because your calling 3bets OOP and this is a HUGE leak in MSS. You might be able to make a small profit doing this in the micros but ultimately this is a very bad habit and you should aim to get rid of bad habits early. How do I know? Math!

      You open 12.8 in EP and you fold 47.9% vs a 3bet this means you are continuing with 12.8%x(1-.479)=6.67% when someone 3bets which is about 99+ ATs+ AJ+ but you are only 4betting 3.3 which is about JJ+ AQs+ AK+ which means you are flatting TT, 99, AJs, ATs, AQ, AJ. Now why is this bad? Well think about it 1) if the 3bet is from a reg the regs 3bet propably crushes your flatting range and you'll be OOP. 2) if the 3bet is from a maniac most of your flatting range will crush the maniacs range anyway so why let him out flop your hand? you need to punish his wide 3bet! Of course you will run against AA and the top of villains range but that is poker. The reason your OR- range should be tight in EP and MP at fishy tables is so that your 4bet range is such a big part of your OR-range that your practically unexploitable by 3bets.

      EX. your EP OR range is 8.3% 4bet range is 3.02% (JJ+,AK+) which gives you a ft3b of 1-(3.02/8.3)=.636 or about 64% which is very hard to exploit.

      Overall you shouldn't ever flat vs a 3bet in MSS. But if you do flat vs a 3bet you should do it IP and with a very clear game plan with hands that play well postflop. An exception to this could be the min 3bet but in these cases you should play according to your reads. For example is villain trying to induce a mistake with the nuts or is villain just weak in general and simply wants you to call or fold?

      As a summary I think you should try to put in some more time re-reading the mss strategy articles and studying the game in general. Also you should update to HM2 ASAP because of the vs hero stat. It is marginaly usefull for BSS but it is VERY useful for MSSers because BSS regs do play very differently vs midstacks than they do vs big stacks.
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,979
      Thank you HypnoMarsu :)
    • srmico
      srmico
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 578
      Thanks a lot HypnoMarsu!!

      I will apply all this changes in my next sessons!

      Plus my bankroll just have an up, as I have been in one of the milestone hands :D
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Platinum
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      Originally posted by srmico
      Plus my bankroll just have an up, as I have been in one of the milestone hands :D
      Very nice! :s_thumbsup:

      Now u got no excuses not to get HM2 :)

      Happy Grindin!