What can you do

    • Gizillioner
      Gizillioner
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2013 Posts: 16
      So i start my zoom session to get the promotion for the KK hand where you ger 100BB if u win with two black kings.

      Lost 5 buy ins in the span of 400 hands and 20 min.

      First i flop top pair top kicker with AQ and loose to a 50bb dude in small blind on flop Q79 RAINBOW where he flopped a set.

      Second I open JJ, get called by 2 opponents, bet flop A J Ttt for value thinking im folding to any raise and get called by both opponents, turn 8o i bet get 1 caller and the second opponent shoves so i fold to see hes KQ when other opponent called.

      Third i finally get my two black kings, limp middle position, get raised by BB, i call, flop comes AK2tt, he raise, I reraise, we get in 100bb, he has AA.

      Forth i 3bet KK vs unknown 100bb, we get it in preflop, he has AA.

      Fifth i get KK, 3 bet BIG vs utg min raise and 1 caller, get 1 call from utg with 70bb, flop comes QT2 i c bet he calls, turn 9 by now pot is SPR is 1, there is 50bb in the pot, and opponent has 40 bb, i call the turn to hes nuts with KJ.

      Im done for today.
  • 10 replies
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hey Gizillioner

      I moved your thread to the no limit forums.

      Well there isn't anything you can do about it. It is never wrong to get it in with KK preflop. Well most of the time it's not. It's also never wrong to stack off the set of KK you had. I don't like the limping you did though :( Just keep playing them correctly and you will get payed off. It's just variance.

      Bogdan made a video series about variance. I suggest you take a look into this! It's a brutal part of poker. Variance video by Bogdan

      Regards

      RasTweet
    • Gizillioner
      Gizillioner
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2013 Posts: 16
      I limped the two black kings because of the promotion on pokerstars where u have to win them post flop to get 100BB bonus.

      Also i forgot to mention 2 other hands where i got sucked out in this 20 min.

      The graph basicly looks like this

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    • voidmind
      voidmind
      Gold
      Joined: 19.01.2011 Posts: 104
      These promotions could really make you frustrated. You limp and you are so afraid to bet in case the opponents fold. And at the end their draw hits and you loose anyway. :-(
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Ah yes the promotion forgot about that. I tend to not grind for something anymore. Because I start to make mistakes and lose much more then I gain with the promotion.

      But what you've posted earlier it still looks like variance :f_frown: Keep your head up and keep playing your A-game. You're just going thru a rough patch. Maybe you can post the hands up for review? Maybe you also made a mistake somewhere?

      Regards

      RasTweet
    • Gizillioner
      Gizillioner
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2013 Posts: 16
      The problem was i ran like this yesterday aswell when i started my session, so i was frustrated the whole day and said to myself, tomorrow is a new day. Then i wake up all happy to play allday long and today starts like this aswell.

      Ok heres the first hand with AQ

      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 47.6 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
      SB: 46.6 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
      BB: 160.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
      UTG: 196.2 BB (VPIP: 6.06, PFR: 3.03, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
      UTG+1: 63.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
      Hero (UTG+2): 100 BB
      MP: 37.2 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
      MP+1: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 5.56, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
      CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 3.33, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 61)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:spade: A:diamond:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to 3.2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 2.8 BB, fold

      Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 9:club: 7:diamond: Q:club: SB bets 3 BB, Hero raises to 9.2 BB, SB raises to 15.4 BB, Hero raises to 43.6 BB, SB calls 28 BB and is all-in

      Turn%s: (94.2 BB, 2 players) 6:heart:
      River%s: (94.2 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:

      SB shows 7:heart: 7:spade: (Full House, Sevens full of Sixes) (Pre 55%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
      Hero mucks Q:spade: A:diamond: (Two Pair, Queens and Sixes) (Pre 45%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      SB wins 90.2 BB



      Here is the second, JJ

      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 52.4 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 4)
      SB: 47.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
      BB: 57.2 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      UTG: 256.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
      Hero (MP): 145.8 BB
      CO: 73.8 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 66.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: J:spade:

      fold, Hero raises to 3.2 BB, fold, BTN calls 3.2 BB, fold, BB calls 2.2 BB

      Flop: (10 BB, 3 players) J:diamond: A:club: T:diamond: BB checks, Hero bets 7.2 BB, BTN calls 7.2 BB, BB calls 7.2 BB

      Turn%s: (31.6 BB, 3 players) 8:spade: BB checks, Hero bets 14.8 BB, BTN calls 14.8 BB, BB raises to 46.8 BB and is all-in, fold, BTN calls 27.2 BB and is all-in

      River%s: (130.4 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:

      BB shows Q:diamond: K:spade: (Straight, Ace High) (Pre 25%, Flop 92%, Turn 96%)
      BTN mucks A:spade: Q:club: (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 75%, Flop 8%, Turn 4%)
      BB wins 125 BB



      Here is the third

      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      SB: 178.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 5)
      BB: 109.2 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
      Hero (UTG): 117.8 BB
      MP: 122 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
      CO: 48.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:club: K:spade:

      Hero calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to 4 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB

      Flop: (12.4 BB, 3 players) A:club: 2:diamond: K:diamond: BB bets 6 BB, Hero raises to 17.6 BB, fold, BB raises to 43.2 BB, Hero raises to 113.8 BB and is all-in, BB calls 62 BB and is all-in

      Turn%s: (222.8 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
      River%s: (222.8 BB, 2 players) 5:club:

      BB shows A:heart: A:spade: (Three of a Kind, Aces) (Pre 82%, Flop 96%, Turn 98%)
      Hero mucks K:club: K:spade: (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 18%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%)
      BB wins 213.6 BB



      Here is the forth preflop all in with KK

      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 98.6 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
      SB: 73.8 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      Hero (BB): 100 BB
      UTG: 94.6 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
      UTG+1: 190.6 BB (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
      UTG+2: 103.2 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
      MP: 72.8 BB (VPIP: 14.10, PFR: 6.41, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 78)
      MP+1: 135 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
      CO: 104.8 BB (VPIP: 11.63, PFR: 11.63, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 43)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:club:

      UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, UTG+2 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, CO raises to 13 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 28.8 BB, fold, fold, CO raises to 104.8 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 71.2 BB and is all-in

      Flop: (206.4 BB, 2 players) 3:club: T:diamond: 5:spade:
      Turn%s: (206.4 BB, 2 players) Q:heart:
      River%s: (206.4 BB, 2 players) 9:club:

      Hero shows K:diamond: K:club: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 19%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
      CO shows A:spade: A:heart: (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 81%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)
      CO wins 197.8 BB


      Here is fifth

      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 240.6 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
      Hero (SB): 131.2 BB
      BB: 111.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 11.63, PFR: 11.63, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 43)
      UTG+1: 135.4 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
      UTG+2: 225 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
      MP: 92 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
      MP+1: 103.6 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 40)
      CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 21)

      Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 10.4 BB, fold, MP calls 8.4 BB, fold

      Flop: (23.8 BB, 2 players) 4:heart: Q:heart: T:club: Hero bets 10.4 BB, MP calls 10.4 BB

      Turn%s: (44.6 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond: Hero bets 19.6 BB, MP raises to 71.2 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 51.6 BB

      River%s: (187 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond:

      Hero shows K:diamond: K:heart: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 90%, Flop 70%, Turn 3%)
      MP shows K:club: J:spade: (Straight, King High) (Pre 10%, Flop 30%, Turn 97%)
      MP wins 179.2 BB


      here is another from the 20 min session with KK, basicly lost all my the king kings i was dealt ironicly

      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 125.4 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
      SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
      BB: 81.4 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
      Hero (UTG): 100 BB
      MP: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
      CO: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 14.81, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:spade:

      Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 3 BB

      Flop: (8.4 BB, 2 players) J:heart: 9:heart: 2:spade: BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, BB calls 6 BB

      Turn%s: (20.4 BB, 2 players) 7:heart: BB bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

      River%s: (40.4 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond: BB bets 16 BB, Hero calls 16 BB

      BB shows 9:spade: 7:spade: (Full House, Nines full of Sevens) (Pre 20%, Flop 24%, Turn 82%)
      Hero mucks K:diamond: K:spade: (Two Pair, Kings and Nines) (Pre 80%, Flop 76%, Turn 18%)
      BB wins 69.4 BB


      ty for comments
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Oh sorry, I meant posting them up for evaluation. But I'll take a look at it as well.

      Hand 1: I don't mind raising his donkbet but when he 3bets you I think you're always behind and I think folding will be better.

      Hand 2: I'd bet bigger on the turn. Stacking off might be close. If he is doing it with enough 2 pair hands then it's ok.

      Hand 3 & 4: Well played, I'd play it the same way.

      Hand 5: You could bet bigger on the flop and turn because it's a drawy board, but I usually bet the same size as you do. Once you get raised on the turn you really should fold. There is no worse hand shoving here.

      Hand 6: hmm not sure. Some will say that you should fold on the river, some say you shouldn't. The river is a really bad card though.

      RasTweet
    • kriko92
      kriko92
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2010 Posts: 800
      Originally posted by RasTweet
      Hand 6: hmm not sure. Some will say that you should fold on the river, some say you shouldn't. The river is a really bad card though.
      Snapfold turn on that card imo. When fish donks there, his hand improved on turn and we don't beat any of these hands.
    • tatisan
      tatisan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2010 Posts: 506
      maybe the AQ hand should be folded on the flop.
      other than that is just bad ugly variance. i've been there and its really frustrating but there is not much you can do about it.
      As RasTweet said, its usually a bad idea to play for a promotion. It kind of shifts the focus from playing the A game. Even more of a bad idea if you are not a regular zoom player.

      As for the promotion, i already won both my K :spade: K :club: yesterday and today.

      One piece of advice if you decide to limp K :spade: K :club: . If the board gets wet, try to get to SD cheaply. After all you have an extra BI as implied odds. If things gets pretty ugly, forget about the promotion and play the hand as it is dealt street by street.

      Good luck!
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Originally posted by kriko92
      Originally posted by RasTweet
      Hand 6: hmm not sure. Some will say that you should fold on the river, some say you shouldn't. The river is a really bad card though.
      Snapfold turn on that card imo. When fish donks there, his hand improved on turn and we don't beat any of these hands.
      Well I think he can do this w/ Jxh so I don't mind calling turn actually.
    • Gizillioner
      Gizillioner
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2013 Posts: 16
      First hand, fish stack of so easily u cant fold vs them. I also thought he dosnt set mine with 45bb with 77, 99 is possible, but other then that its KQ,JQ,QT and draws so i go it in for 40bb. Probaly a misstake tho, but i really hate folding top pair top kicker or overpairs vs fish.

      Second hand, i bet small on the turn because both of them had small stacks. And as of stacking of, i thought if he would want to stack of his 2 pair, he would have shoved the flop, but when he only calls flop and shoves turn, looks SUPER strong nutted.


      5. Same for this one, if he calls 3 bet with KJo and flat calls flop for 25% of hes stack with a draw, why wouldnt he do that with AQ, KQ or someother crappy hand top pair hand.

      6. He donked the turn and river small it smelled like top pair only. If he had 2 pair he check raise or bet bigger. So you cant give fish credit allways, their play dosnt make sense. But i almost folded the turn myself given he represented 2pair / set and specially on river, but i made a tilt call because he was a fish.

      certainly made some misstakes.