Is this a downswing?

    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Am I just on a downswing or playing really bad? I know due to such I have made some changes which affect my game in some situations. But anyway I just lose whenever I am favorite.

      Could someone take a look at my stats? Maybe there are some leaks seen just in them.

      And I am playing NL5 normal tables.

      Thanks.









  • 14 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,961
      Hey Rihard,

      I'm no expert when it comes to cash so I will move this to our NL Discussion board.

      Hopefully some of our helpful community will assist you here :)


      Best regards,
      Gary
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Thanks Gary. :)
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,961
      No worries :)
    • Evante
      Evante
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2009 Posts: 833
      I guess you are questioning your ability?

      play another 100k hands and see whether it even out.

      this is still consider very "few" hands
    • CharlesPkR
      CharlesPkR
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2008 Posts: 7,398
      Hey,

      As I look your stat, all is pretty standard for a NL5 player, you have a solid basis but still with common leaks. Your VPIP/PFR is really tight but I think it's better to keep it so at NL5.
      The problem is postflop with your aggressivity. 35/21/17 is clearly too passive. The Flop C-Bet % is also too low (should be between 65% and 75%).

      The other stats are not perfect (for example the blind defense) but it's ok, you don't have to get a perfect play at NL5 and you have to get some priorities.

      I think your priority should be to be more aggressive. But be careful with that because you have to control your aggressivity. I suggest you to watch some videos about the Continuation Bet and maybe also some session review / live poker videos where each time the coach bet you ask yourself if you'd have bet.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Originally posted by Evante
      I guess you are questioning your ability?

      play another 100k hands and see whether it even out.

      this is still consider very "few" hands
      This is probably what I had in mind, as when I keep running bad I start to question my self whether I play good or bad..

      Originally posted by CharlesPkR
      Hey,

      As I look your stat, all is pretty standard for a NL5 player, you have a solid basis but still with common leaks. Your VPIP/PFR is really tight but I think it's better to keep it so at NL5.
      The problem is postflop with your aggressivity. 35/21/17 is clearly too passive. The Flop C-Bet % is also too low (should be between 65% and 75%).

      The other stats are not perfect (for example the blind defense) but it's ok, you don't have to get a perfect play at NL5 and you have to get some priorities.

      I think your priority should be to be more aggressive. But be careful with that because you have to control your aggressivity. I suggest you to watch some videos about the Continuation Bet and maybe also some session review / live poker videos where each time the coach bet you ask yourself if you'd have bet.
      Thanks for answering. I used to play NL5 Zoom before and I was slightly more aggressive, but since I moved to normal cash tables I see not being able to fold, therefore I became kinda more passive and I am pushing my strong hands. Maybe it is the issue. I know that Zoom is generally tighter so I was more comfortable being aggressive, but normal tables are more like loose passive.

      Thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look at some videos and try your advice. Hope this somehow will lead me into fixing the issue. :)
    • CharlesPkR
      CharlesPkR
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2008 Posts: 7,398
      Being aggressive doesn't mean bluffing more. If they don't fold, value thiner.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Originally posted by CharlesPkR
      Being aggressive doesn't mean bluffing more. If they don't fold, value thiner.
      Yeah, thanks. So basically against such players you would value town strong hands and nuts. As you can see my WTSD & W$SD% are quite decent? I just don't understand why am I running this bad? I will work more on my aggressiveness and see how this is going to change.
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,961
      Some nice comments so far!

      Keep them coming guys!


      #lovethecommunity
    • NewwWorld
      NewwWorld
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2012 Posts: 198
      some good comments indeed

      To OP: first of all, respect man for playing 100K hands on these very low micros. Lots of people don't even take the trouble to make that huge grind. So Good job!

      I see ur flop: Flop vs Raise fold is 44%. Does this mean that if you get raised OTF you only fold 44%? seems a bit low, but not sure since u play a tighther game than i normally do

      A general tip i think is still true on the micros is to bet/fold alot. So bet bet bet, but once u get raised, u should be very cautious.


      Since i don't play ur style i can't say to much about ur stats, but let me give some small general info about variance:

      it can be a reallll bitch. Most important is that u never tilt, because then ur winnigns go down really fast, but it's not because of variance, but because of tilting.
      (Maybe small variance, and u start losing some, then u feel bad/tilt, and then u lose a lot more due to tilt.)
      Im not saying that is the case, it is a possibillity.


      Something else: How much variance u have doesnt only depend on the number of hands (if u play more hands ,the variance decreaess, ), but also on your winrate. If your winrate is only 2bb/100, u will have a LOT more variance than someone who plays 10bb/100.

      So maybe u could focus on ur winrate some more. That is a smart thing to do regardless of a downswiing, because while u are in the micros, you still have to learn a LOT. And u don't learn anything if you just play hands and hands and don't review them/talk strat/watch vids. Some people think: i just play a lot of hands and then i move up in stakes fast, but this is not how it works. U learn more and move up much faster if you study . (Also, u are much more relaxed while playing poker if you spend a lot of time stuyding instead of just playing hands)

      Hope this helped u out / gave u some ideas on how to proceed.
      If u have any more questions regarding to what i said just quote me and ill obv reply ;)

      GL and i wish u lots of rungood !
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      I think NewwWorld makes a good point about variance and w/r. Yes your running below ev bt your ev w/r is still quite low. So it might be worth toning down the volume, 350k hands is a lot in 6months for a micro player looking to improve, and spend more time review your play.

      Some points from stats:

      - Nice sb w/r your defo doing something right there!

      - Your very tight. Especially from btn. On zoom where people play tighter ranges you can comfortably open 60%+ of btns while your only opening 40%.

      - Your calling 3bs a lot. 60% in ep/mp? Thats crazy... You could definitely save some $$$ by finding a few more folds here. I know your ranges are tight but still...

      - It looks like you play with a static 4b range. Do you ever 4b bluff?

      - Linking into my last point you could probably resteal a bit more. Some players on mircos have static 4b ranges and don't know how to deal with 3bs. So when they're opening 60% of btns and only 4betting AK/QQ+ you can find a lot of folds. Ofc they will call some weak ranges but I think you can probably generate enough fe pre you could play fit-or-fold post.

      - You fold quite a bit to steals as well which could be addressed above.

      - What CharlesPKR said you seem to be playing weak tight rather than TAG. So try to bet wider for value and up the aggression. And I agree with him about cbs I know I've made this point to you before that I like cbettign ~60% but with your tight ranges you could be betting more often.

      Hope that helps
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,118
      Hi, Rihard4a
      I would have liked to see the non-showdown and showdown lines too.

      They can help determine if you're taking too much crap too far, or giving up too easily.

      How's your mental game?

      100K hands in a month is > 3K / day.

      Can you play your best for that length of time?
      Can you *really* make the best decisions on large #s of tables at once?


      You don't mention how long your sessions are, nor how many tables you play, but those are important factors in the mental game.

      How well do you handle bad beats?

      Do you get enough sleep?

      How is your nutrition and exercise?

      Although it seems a bit silly, these things have a huge impact on your mental state, which has a huge impact on your winrate.

      May I suggest you start a blog?
      It is really helpful to have a place to put down your thought and self-analysis at the end of a session.

      Speaking of self-analysis, do you review each session afterwards?
      How do you prepare for a session?

      How much time do you devote to study?

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Just realised your playing normal tables now lol. I think my btn comment still applies and you can open >50%. Perhaps not a liberally as zoom though.

      An idea might be to run a few filters of common spots. ie facing flop cb, facing 3b pre etc. It'll take <1hr to do and you get an idea of where your leaking loads. You could even post your graph + w/r in here and ask people for theirs so you will know how your w/r compares.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Originally posted by NewwWorld
      some good comments indeed

      To OP: first of all, respect man for playing 100K hands on these very low micros. Lots of people don't even take the trouble to make that huge grind. So Good job!

      I see ur flop: Flop vs Raise fold is 44%. Does this mean that if you get raised OTF you only fold 44%? seems a bit low, but not sure since u play a tighther game than i normally do

      A general tip i think is still true on the micros is to bet/fold alot. So bet bet bet, but once u get raised, u should be very cautious.


      Since i don't play ur style i can't say to much about ur stats, but let me give some small general info about variance:

      it can be a reallll bitch. Most important is that u never tilt, because then ur winnigns go down really fast, but it's not because of variance, but because of tilting.
      (Maybe small variance, and u start losing some, then u feel bad/tilt, and then u lose a lot more due to tilt.)
      Im not saying that is the case, it is a possibillity.


      Something else: How much variance u have doesnt only depend on the number of hands (if u play more hands ,the variance decreaess, ), but also on your winrate. If your winrate is only 2bb/100, u will have a LOT more variance than someone who plays 10bb/100.

      So maybe u could focus on ur winrate some more. That is a smart thing to do regardless of a downswiing, because while u are in the micros, you still have to learn a LOT. And u don't learn anything if you just play hands and hands and don't review them/talk strat/watch vids. Some people think: i just play a lot of hands and then i move up in stakes fast, but this is not how it works. U learn more and move up much faster if you study . (Also, u are much more relaxed while playing poker if you spend a lot of time stuyding instead of just playing hands)

      Hope this helped u out / gave u some ideas on how to proceed.
      If u have any more questions regarding to what i said just quote me and ill obv reply ;)

      GL and i wish u lots of rungood !
      Thanks for kind reply. I agree on learning part. Currently I am on holidays, therefore I can't spend time on learning, I just have some small sessions in the evening.

      Regarding your question about flop raise. Well basically yes, as much I can remember now people playing NL5 very often minraise on the flop, so I can call with hands like FD and OESD, nutFD I would probably just get it in depending on villain and board texture (obviously I wouldn't if flop would be 7 :spade: 7 :heart: 2 :heart:)

      Actually yes I did find something interesting for my self. Thank you! :f_grin:

      Originally posted by holmeboy
      I think NewwWorld makes a good point about variance and w/r. Yes your running below ev bt your ev w/r is still quite low. So it might be worth toning down the volume, 350k hands is a lot in 6months for a micro player looking to improve, and spend more time review your play.

      Some points from stats:

      - Nice sb w/r your defo doing something right there!

      - Your very tight. Especially from btn. On zoom where people play tighter ranges you can comfortably open 60%+ of btns while your only opening 40%.

      - Your calling 3bs a lot. 60% in ep/mp? Thats crazy... You could definitely save some $$$ by finding a few more folds here. I know your ranges are tight but still...

      - It looks like you play with a static 4b range. Do you ever 4b bluff?

      - Linking into my last point you could probably resteal a bit more. Some players on mircos have static 4b ranges and don't know how to deal with 3bs. So when they're opening 60% of btns and only 4betting AK/QQ+ you can find a lot of folds. Ofc they will call some weak ranges but I think you can probably generate enough fe pre you could play fit-or-fold post.

      - You fold quite a bit to steals as well which could be addressed above.

      - What CharlesPKR said you seem to be playing weak tight rather than TAG. So try to bet wider for value and up the aggression. And I agree with him about cbs I know I've made this point to you before that I like cbettign ~60% but with your tight ranges you could be betting more often.

      Hope that helps
      I think I can see the problem now, but I just started working on this before posting this thread. Now I do actually 4bet bluff based on villain stats. The sample is just too small of this to affect the overall monthly stats. Thanks for sharing your opinion. Found something useful again! :f_grin:

      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Hi, Rihard4a
      I would have liked to see the non-showdown and showdown lines too.

      They can help determine if you're taking too much crap too far, or giving up too easily.

      How's your mental game?

      100K hands in a month is > 3K / day.

      Can you play your best for that length of time?
      Can you *really* make the best decisions on large #s of tables at once?


      You don't mention how long your sessions are, nor how many tables you play, but those are important factors in the mental game.

      How well do you handle bad beats?

      Do you get enough sleep?

      How is your nutrition and exercise?

      Although it seems a bit silly, these things have a huge impact on your mental state, which has a huge impact on your winrate.

      May I suggest you start a blog?
      It is really helpful to have a place to put down your thought and self-analysis at the end of a session.

      Speaking of self-analysis, do you review each session afterwards?
      How do you prepare for a session?

      How much time do you devote to study?

      Best of luck,
      --VS
      I will post the things you asked a bit later, as I am now on my holidays I don't have that much time.

      I will explain why I have such sample. Most of it was made during the pokerstars million hand promotion, and I was playing 15-18 tables for about 5-6 hours daily. Now I don't have such volume. I play 12 tables and less hours. The length of my sessions vary, based how much time I have, it can be more or less, I would say roughly 2 hours, sometimes 3 hours.

      When I face bad beat I am like a rock now, because I have too much of them. :D I sleep very well. I usually workout 4-5 days a week, 1,5-2 hours per session.

      I did review my sessions prior my holidays. I would usually write down notes from my reviews and read them before starting my sessions.

      I don't really have much material to study from and I can't get gold status here on PS.com because I can't get affiliation with pokerstars, and I prefer playing there due to bigger field, but I am considering moving rooms just to improve my game, and then once I get strong enough play on pokerstars again. :)

      I had like two blogs here already. But then I came to conclusions that I don't really need them, because they take too much time which I can spend studying.

      Originally posted by holmeboy
      Just realised your playing normal tables now lol. I think my btn comment still applies and you can open >50%. Perhaps not a liberally as zoom though.

      An idea might be to run a few filters of common spots. ie facing flop cb, facing 3b pre etc. It'll take <1hr to do and you get an idea of where your leaking loads. You could even post your graph + w/r in here and ask people for theirs so you will know how your w/r compares.
      I will play with filters once I get some time and post some graphs here, which I find interesting or problems understanding. :D

      Thanks again everyone. Nice to see some cool comments! :f_grin:

      Best Regards,

      Rihard