What stats should I keep track on?

    • Melwis
      Melwis
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.09.2010 Posts: 14
      Hello!

      I'm wondering what stats you think I should keep track on if/when I start to play alot of poker at the microlimits (since im a rookie)? I'm going to be playing at 0.01/0.02 NL Holdem limit.

      I'm not interested to go serious with poker, mainly want to play it for fun, hence I do not want to invest in a program like PokerTracker or Holdem Manager at the moment.

      Some stats I already know but want to be sure I am not missing any important ones:

      Hands played
      Time played
      $/hour
      BB/100
      Hands/hour
      Limit
      Buy-in
      Result

      Maybe these stats will do or am I missing some? Is any of the stats above not needed?

      Also, i'm interested if there is any good Excel documents that anyone know of with all these important stats (and equations) already implemented cause that would be handy! :)
  • 6 replies
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      Hey Melwis!

      when you say "what stats to keep track on", do you mean stats that describe your own play, or play of your opponents?

      i understand that you don't want to invest money if you wont be considering poker so seriously, but tbh it will be quite difficult to look into stats without such a program. i am really not aware of any Excel document that will keep track of these stats - if you are that interested then i think you should just invest in the program because it will be recorded much more effectively and reliably than if you were to input data manually.

      about the important stats, i guess the most important imo would be VPIP and PFR - 'voluntarily put money into the pot' and 'preflop raise'. these two stats are pretty important.

      conversely, i'd say that things like $/hr and Result would be pretty bad stats to keep an eye on because on nl2 you should not worry too much about what you make per hour - it will be just so small. also, if you are just beginning/rookie then you should look at improving your understanding of the game rather than looking at winrates and $/hr.

      so all in all i think the following stats would be the most important stats to track:
      Total Hands
      VPIP
      PFR
      bb/100 (if you really want to monitor your winrate :D )

      notice how most of the stats from your list i have removed - this is because they aren't really necessary. for example time played - i don't think it really matters how long you've played for but instead how many hands you've played. this leads me onto my next point...

      something that you should probably keep in mind is that you will need A LOT of hands in order to get an understanding of how your game is doing. when i say that, i don't mean hundreds or even thousands of hands - if i were to recommend a decent sample size it would have to be a minimum of 50,000 hands but preferably 100,000 hands at least. for this exact reason, tracking your winrate, $/hr and Result will be quite pointless because i'm sure as a beginner/rookie you will most likely not be getting close to this sort of volume for a while. also, as you work on your game and improve certain aspects this will completely change your game - every time you learn something new. therefore whatever winrates you do see will actually not be very representative of your game.

      this might not really answer your question very well but it is quite hard to track your game without tracking software. imo, if you are drawing happiness and enjoyment from playing as you are then just continue doing what you enjoy :) but i would definitely recommend going through the strategy content on this site and learning as much as you can from it. i think this would be much more productive than worrying about stats especially since you arent prepared to invest in PT or HM. i just don't think it would be reliable to track such information manually.
    • mnhwl
      mnhwl
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2010 Posts: 1
      Nice reply, thanks!

      I personally think Holdem Manager isn't too pricey. If you treat Poker like a Hobby, it's a small price to pay. If you treat Poker like a business, it's part and parcel of doing business.

      DrDunne,

      Do you only use these few stats?
      I just started out not long ago and I use these:

      3 Bet
      Fold to 3 Bet
      4 Bet
      Flop AF
      Turn AF
      River AF
      CB

      Still learning the trade. Would be good if you can point me to some good resources here! :)

      Thanks in advanced!
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      np!

      if you are starting on like nl2 and you don't have much experience then stats arent really gunna be very useful. what i mean is at nl2 you shouldnt necessarily be worrying about looking at other people's stats. it is most important to just work on your own game - learn to play solid first before you start looking for ways to exploit your specific opponents. so i suggest using the strategy articles here to work on that. on the micro-micros you will rarely see the same players each session and so you will rarely have a good sample size on anyone.

      actually there are ofc other (more important) benefits to it. mainly that you can carry out session reviews and copy and paste hands into the hand evaluation forum and get some really good feedback and advice. imo this is the number 1 reason why hm2/pt4 will be good to buy and not just for the stats.

      about your stats, i think you could choose better ones. if you are just starting out then i really really dont see the point to have 4bet stat, foldvs3bet, or AF by street. if i were to recommend a HUD to a beginning player it would have to be what i used to use. my hud nowadays is much more detailed (i hate popups) and just based on my own personal preferences that i feel are important so it would be pretty useless to post it. i think my old hud was fine though; it used to be this:

      name | hands
      VPIP | PFR | 3bet | steal
      CBf | fold CBf | WTSD


      handcount, VPIP and PFR are by far the most important because they converge the quickest. 3bet is debatable to include but just keep in mind that you need many hands to get a meaningful value. same with WTSD - just don't look at these two when you have just 100 hands and say "oh, he's 3betting me a lot!" because it means nothing with this sample size. i didn't include AF either - that needs at least some sample (especially if you have the street-by-street values), and it is really easy to misinterpret anyway. imo it will do more harm than good, but definitely read about it in the article below.

      there is so much to be said about stats so here is a good article that should help.

      also don't take my word for all of this because i may be wrong anyway. maybe if anybody disagrees with any of what i've said then they can post their suggestions as well.

      gl at the tables!
    • TimoDee
      TimoDee
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.08.2008 Posts: 153
      Hi,

      I didn't wanna create a seperate thread, but I have a similar question. I understand you guys have already posted some good HUDs to use, however I'm playing Turbo SnG, shall I alter my HUDs or there's no real difference between HUDs for Cash and SnG

      Thanks,
    • loljanka
      loljanka
      Basic
      Joined: 29.12.2012 Posts: 90
      @DrDune about the 3bet stats, u say 100hands isn't enough, and well it obv isn't, but within those hands u easily get a feel for the player like if his a guy that could go out of line and be aggro monkey or the guy is a stone cold nit, obv u just make assumptions, but poker is all about assumptions. deff agree to WTSD tho, 100hands are way too less to even assume anything close to corect and it itself is quite hard stats to master, as it includes when does he go to SD, as PFR or as caller and so many other factors, and if VPIP/PFR are super low he obv will have high decent high WTSD and W$SD whereas a loose player with high WTSD will have low W$SD for the most part?

      @TimoDee. it depends, obv u can alter ur HUDs, as i remember a year or two ago, a pro named LessthanThree(sry if spelled wrong) from here had a HUD that changes stats when ppl bust. so like when sng starts he has 1 HUD, when it's bubble time some other stats show up etc.

      but ye, overall for starters DrDunes HUD seems good as u don't want to make it too complicated HUD at start from which u don't understand half. better start with few stats and as time goes just add more, as u want to be able to understand ur HUD just by looking at it for a second and u already know whats going on.
      but the most important thing is, don't rely on HUD too much, always take notes on players and try to exploit them.


      im prolly not taken srsly as im basic in here :f_biggrin: but hope it helps :)
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      @TimoDee
      i dont play any form of SnG so i can't really comment about it. i guess just keep things simple as loljanka said. also since this is the NL board you might get some better information if you post in the SnG boards - maybe you'll get more information/suggestions there!

      Originally posted by loljanka
      @DrDune about the 3bet stats, u say 100hands isn't enough, and well it obv isn't, but within those hands u easily get a feel for the player like if his a guy that could go out of line and be aggro monkey or the guy is a stone cold nit, obv u just make assumptions, but poker is all about assumptions. deff agree to WTSD tho, 100hands are way too less to even assume anything close to corect and it itself is quite hard stats to master, as it includes when does he go to SD, as PFR or as caller and so many other factors, and if VPIP/PFR are super low he obv will have high decent high WTSD and W$SD whereas a loose player with high WTSD will have low W$SD for the most part?
      yeah i agree 100% about getting a feel for the player. i didn't wanna keep on talking because for some reason my posts look more like essays :D but since mnhwl seems quite new to it all i think the most important thing would be for him to realise how important sample size is. and also you make a really good point about the WTSD which is true for pretty much all stats - they might seem like individual pieces of the puzzle but actually they are all connected to each other in subtle ways. its why im really not a fan of using AF as well.

      don't rely on HUD too much, always take notes on players and try to exploit them.

      +1

      im prolly not taken srsly as im basic in here :f_biggrin:

      :f_o: