Fundamentals of Omaha

    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      Hey!

      21 year old guy from Finland making transition from hu sng's to omaha cash tables.

      I will be starting small from plo5 and grinding my way up while building my bankroll and skills in process.

      Basically I haven't played PLO at all before but everyone gotta start from somewhere, right? I will be studying game a lot by watching videos and going through hand histories after every session. I will be posting hands for you to comment on.

      My goals will be to get at least 100k hands every month and achieve supernova during this year to get better rakeback/bonuses and of course to move up the stakes.

      Today will be starting my first sessions on Omaha and will be posting how it goes.

      Any good video series you would recommend on?
  • 13 replies
    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      First 1k hands played. Session was pretty good although I still have some problems with position. I tend to play too many hands from early position and middle position.

      Here's the graph:



      Then few interesting hands

      Hand 1:

      Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (SB): $26.08
      BB: $9.70
      UTG: $8.64
      CO: $15.21
      BTN: $9.40

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with J:club: T:diamond: K:spade: J:heart:
      1 fold, CO raises to $0.35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.96, 1 fold, CO calls $0.61

      Flop: ($2.02) 4:spade: 2:club: J:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50

      Turn: ($5.02) 5:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.50, CO raises to $12.31, Hero raises to $22.12, CO calls $0.44 all in

      River: ($30.52) 7:diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $30.52
      Hero shows J:club: T:diamond: K:spade: J:heart: (three of a kind, Jacks)
      CO shows 5:club: 5:diamond: A:spade: 8:spade: (three of a kind, Fives)
      Hero wins $29.22
      (Rake: $1.30)


      Hand 2: Got kinda lost during this hand. Not sure if I should have called preflop. It would be nice if someone could open the hand little bit.

      Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $16.94
      Hero (BTN): $10.75
      SB: $6.42
      BB: $4.54
      UTG: $10.00
      MP: $11.71

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with J:spade: K:spade: 6:heart: K:heart:
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.20, 2 folds, CO raises to $3.75, Hero calls $2.55

      Flop: ($7.65) 4:heart: 3:diamond: Q:club: (2 players)
      CO bets $7, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $7.65
      CO wins $7.32
      (Rake: $0.33)

      Hand 3: Not sure whether to call or raise the flop.

      Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $21.85
      Hero (SB): $15.26
      BB: $10.00
      UTG: $22.35
      MP: $21.25
      CO: $13.32

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 8:heart: 8:club: T:spade: J:club:
      1 fold, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30, MP calls $0.30

      Flop: ($1.60) 3:heart: 9:diamond: 7:club: (4 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $1.20, Hero raises to $5.10, BB folds, MP folds, CO raises to $12.92 all in, Hero calls $7.82

      Turn: ($27.44) 5:club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($27.44) Q:heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $27.44
      Hero shows 8:heart: 8:club: T:spade: J:club: (a pair of Eights)
      CO shows 9:heart: 6:diamond: 9:club: 6:spade: (three of a kind, Nines)
      CO wins $26.27
      (Rake: $1.17)


      Hand 4 :

      Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $4.88
      Hero (SB): $10.00
      BB: $17.38
      UTG: $8.95
      MP: $14.38
      CO: $7.45

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 5:spade: 8:diamond: 9:club: 7:spade:
      UTG calls $0.10, MP raises to $0.45, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.11, 2 folds, MP calls $0.66

      Flop: ($2.42) 5:heart: J:club: 3:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.35, MP calls $1.35

      Turn: ($5.12) 6:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.90, MP calls $4.90

      River: ($14.92) T:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.64 all in, MP calls $2.64

      Final Pot: $20.20
      Hero shows 5:spade: 8:diamond: 9:club: 7:spade: (a pair of Fives)
      MP shows 2:diamond: K:club: K:diamond: A:club: (a pair of Kings)
      MP wins $19.34
      (Rake: $0.86)
    • TheMarxBros3
      TheMarxBros3
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2008 Posts: 1,346
      I find a good way to improve my game is to open the $25-$50 tables and watch the pros when I'm not playing. I will replay the hand after it is over in order to better understand what they did, why they did it, and how much they bet.
      Putting pressure on your opponents by betting and raising is never wrong from an aggression point of view. However it can be wrong for every other reason you can think of.

      In this hand you are 1-out of position and 2-you have one of the cards needed to make your straight. (J :club: ). Therefore I would either call and peel a card (and if I missed fold on the turn) or fold on the flop because of the 2 aforementioned flaws which is probably superior. You still had a very good session so don't be to hard on yourself. There is a good article in this months WPT magazine on PLO written by a pokerstrategy pro.
      Keep plugging away.

      Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $21.85
      Hero (SB): $15.26
      BB: $10.00
      UTG: $22.35
      MP: $21.25
      CO: $13.32

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 8: 8: T: J:
      1 fold, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30, MP calls $0.30

      Flop: ($1.60) 3: 9:diamond: 7: (4 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $1.20, Hero raises to $5.10, BB folds, MP folds, CO raises to $12.92 all in, Hero calls $7.82

      Turn: ($27.44) 5: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($27.44) Q: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $27.44
      Hero shows 8: 8: T: J: (a pair of Eights)
      CO shows 9: 6:diamond: 9: 6: (three of a kind, Nines)
      CO wins $26.27
      (Rake: $1.17)
    • DeLau
      DeLau
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2009 Posts: 1,606
      Is it even possible to beat rake at these stakes?

      GL with your goals! 100k hands a month is quite a lot. :)
    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      Originally posted by TheMarxBros3
      I find a good way to improve my game is to open the $25-$50 tables and watch the pros when I'm not playing. I will replay the hand after it is over in order to better understand what they did, why they did it, and how much they bet.
      Putting pressure on your opponents by betting and raising is never wrong from an aggression point of view. However it can be wrong for every other reason you can think of.
      Thank you for the tips. I need to definitely check out the article on WPT magazine.

      Originally posted by DeLau
      Is it even possible to beat rake at these stakes?

      GL with your goals! 100k hands a month is quite a lot. smile
      Thank you! :)

      Sure the rake is beatable and i'm here the prove that :D . If my calculations are somewhat correct you will be paying rake about 12bb/100 at plo5 and little bit more at plo10. Just need to get winrate higher than that and you are doing pretty good.
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Good luck man.

      Tough i would recommend you 3b for pot when you do it. You are giving too good of a price to any hand with your sizing :)
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      Originally posted by TheMarxBros3
      I find a good way to improve my game is to open the $25-$50 tables and watch the pros when I'm not playing. I will replay the hand after it is over in order to better understand what they did, why they did it, and how much they bet.
      That could be a bit problematic because there are usually so much history and dynamics between players. I could be wrong, but i don't think that the "pool" will vary that much on those stakes so basically the same players play together night after night.
      That could (and probably will) lead them to take lines that don't make any sense at all.
      Okay, that alone doesn't really do any harm, but if someone try to make same kind of plays in PLO5 without fully understanding why that pro did what he/she did, the results could be even disastrous.. :D

      Of course watching pro's games and trying to figure out their thought processess behind the actions is ok and could be a lot of fun.
      But you have to be careful how much of those lines you could actually take back to the micro PLO.
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Yeah, plo 5k is competly different from micro plo. It will just confuse you. You'll see someone run a great bluff, but on micros your are gonna get called as people can't hand read.
    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      Originally posted by Skodljivec
      Good luck man.
      Thank you!


      Yeah of course the difference between micro stakes PLO and high stakes PLO is enormous and you can't directly apply all the things they do at higher stakes to micro stakes. I have been watching a lot of Galfond's and other PLO specialists videos and they been really helpful for me. Of course you can't apply all they teach to micro stakes but there's still lot of stuff you can.

      I have played like 2000 hands for now and have noticed that people are really really bad at micro stakes. Many guys playing with +70 vpip etc.

      My win rate seems to be 17.66 bb/100 after 2k hands.
    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      Here's picture for some of my stats:



      VPIP is too high since played too many hands from small blind. Need to fix that during next session.
    • TheMarxBros3
      TheMarxBros3
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2008 Posts: 1,346
      That could be a bit problematic because there are usually so much history and dynamics between players. I could be wrong, but i don't think that the "pool" will vary that much on those stakes so basically the same players play together night after night.
      That could (and probably will) lead them to take lines that don't make any sense at all.
      Okay, that alone doesn't really do any harm, but if someone try to make same kind of plays in PLO5 without fully understanding why that pro did what he/she did, the results could be even disastrous.. grin

      Of course watching pro's games and trying to figure out their thought processess behind the actions is ok and could be a lot of fun.
      But you have to be careful how much of those lines you could actually take back to the micro PLO.


      My answer was in response to his question on videos to learn PLO. I find this a great way to learn and to think beyond the level of micros. This will give you a good foundation with which to build on.
      As far as history against one another goes, that is why I replay the hands after and try to figure out their thought process. This way I can figure out if this is a good line to take or one that was taken because of a history between players.

      A winning poker player always knows how to adapt his game to the game and players he is in against. When watching a player like Daniel Negreanu on the final table of a WSOP event you will see that he will play a hand differently against a pro then he does an amateur. A pro can lay down a monster. An amature can not.

      In PLO 5 they play no-foldem PLO and you need to adapt your game to that.
    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      PLO5 is truly no-foldem game and with right game plan you can achieve very high win rate in those games.

      Today haven't played at all since been moving stuff to my new office whole day. I got an office where I play poker and do all poker related stuff. I will be posting pictures of my office when get everything in the right order :) .

      I think it was really good decision for me to get place where I only concentrate on poker and after I leave the office I can focus on my family and other things.

      Question about bankroll management for PLO players: How many buyins you need to have to be on safe side to move up the limits? Any stop loss you guys use?
      ____________________________________________________________

      Bankroll (500 dollars when started PLO project) --> Current bankroll 575.81 d

      Road to supernova VPP's collected : 18481 / 100000
    • PLOgrind3r
      PLOgrind3r
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.07.2013 Posts: 7
      Hola!

      It's time to wrap up this month. This month still been playing hyper husng's with high volume and left omaha for next month basically. This month been studying omaha a lot by going through hand histories and watching videos. My friend has also been coaching me.

      Starting from tomorrow will be investing my time for omaha only and won't be playing husng's basically at all. My goal is to get 100k hands during august and go closer to supernova.

      I got 3 tickets to 215d tournaments on stars through steps today and I will be using them on Sunday I think. Sunday million, Sunday warmup and that 215d heads up tourney sound pretty good for me. GL to me :D

      Here's graph of hypers from july (mostly 15s played):



      No point posting omaha graph since only played few hands since the first graph I posted. I have been playing plo5-plo10 atm. I'm hoping to move up the stakes as soon as possible.

      VPP progress : 19,463 / 100000 VPP
    • pyllystrategia
      pyllystrategia
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2009 Posts: 24
      Originally posted by TheMarxBros3
      I find a good way to improve my game is to open the $25-$50 tables and watch the pros when I'm not playing. I will replay the hand after it is over in order to better understand what they did, why they did it, and how much they bet.
      Putting pressure on your opponents by betting and raising is never wrong from an aggression point of view. However it can be wrong for every other reason you can think of.

      In this hand you are 1-out of position and 2-you have one of the cards needed to make your straight. (J :club: ). Therefore I would either call and peel a card (and if I missed fold on the turn) or fold on the flop because of the 2 aforementioned flaws which is probably superior. You still had a very good session so don't be to hard on yourself. There is a good article in this months WPT magazine on PLO written by a pokerstrategy pro.
      Keep plugging away.

      Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $21.85
      Hero (SB): $15.26
      BB: $10.00
      UTG: $22.35
      MP: $21.25
      CO: $13.32

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 8: 8: T: J:
      1 fold, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30, MP calls $0.30

      Flop: ($1.60) 3: 9:diamond: 7: (4 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $1.20, Hero raises to $5.10, BB folds, MP folds, CO raises to $12.92 all in, Hero calls $7.82

      Turn: ($27.44) 5: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($27.44) Q: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $27.44
      Hero shows 8: 8: T: J: (a pair of Eights)
      CO shows 9: 6:diamond: 9: 6: (three of a kind, Nines)
      CO wins $26.27
      (Rake: $1.17)
      you cannot play this hand right any other way he did.

      and about the stats, ure way too passive postflop, should also bluf more rivers, 3bet and pfr is good.

      hand 1 is call pf, 3betting weak kings oop is a big leak if you are 80< bb.

      hand 2, no can do, wpwp.

      3, fold is not a mistake pf but wp anyway, call is not wrong also.

      4, bit smaller barrel on turn, wp otherwise.

      Is it even possible to beat rake at these stakes?

      GL with your goals! 100k hands a month is quite a lot. smile
      i played ~110k hands this year @plo10-25 and made 28,8bb/100, ran under ev. and ofcourse you make more at plo5 250bb if you are a good player.

      but plz, i have been coaching this guy now, if you some people coach him there also, plz do it propably, not like some coaches on finnish forum cause part of them dont even know all the basics and time have driven over them..... you get biggest winrate at PLO5 with 20+% 3bet and ~35 vpip and that's a cold fact.

      i dont also like people in there in pokerstrategy's upstairs, i cannot withdraw my affiliate comissions, and they dont even say a reason for that (it cannot be a big deal). (205$ stuck atm for example and more going to be stuck) STILL THEY TELL ME TO PLAY UNDER THEM AND TO BE ACTIVE ON FORUM, BUT THEY DONT PAY COMISSIONS........ THAT IS FUCKING PATHETIC WAY TO MAKE MONEY!

      nothing else this time, pokerstrategy sucks. gl.