[NL20-NL50] NL25 SH Zoom AK 4bet pot

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      SB ($13.78)
      BB ($13.58)
      UTG ($41.99)
      UTG+1 ($39.58)
      Hero ($46.35)
      BTN ($27.19)

      Dealt to Hero A:spade: K:heart:

      UTG raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.10, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to $4.50, Hero calls $2.40

      FLOP ($9.35) 4:club: Q:club: T:diamond:

      UTG bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25

      TURN ($19.85) 4:club: Q:club: T:diamond: 5:heart:

      UTG bets $7.75, Hero folds

      UTG wins $18.96

      30/30 10h

      Folding prelop is too weak I guess, 5bet is too light. I have position so call.

      Flop - 1/2 sizing is often a bluff, so I float with GS + overs.

      Turn - this is probably 100% value.
  • 10 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
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      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,329
      Hey SPeedFANat1c,

      Given the positions involved I think 3bet/folding is pretty standard 100bb deep. The only reason you may have for calling is that you are slightly deep. AKo is a reverse implied odds hand that actually decreases in value the deeper you get. Calling is ok, I still think folding is fine here. In reality you are up against a big pocket-pair extremely often UTGvsCO.

      Postflop looks ok imo.
    • MisterSnS
      MisterSnS
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      Joined: 09.11.2011 Posts: 1,748
      Hm, I see no sense in folding when we decide to 3bet preflop. I mean is he ever calling with a hand we are dominating? If yes, then it makes sense. But I would prefer AKs for this and would flat AKo, 3bet SCs, Pockets (cards that make BIG hands). I mean with AKo there is a much smaller chance that we are getting his whole stack, and a bigger that he is getting ours as we valuetown ourselves if he decides to c/c with his set or other nutted hands.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
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      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,329
      Preflop is essentially a bluff or semi-bluff.

      Flatting preflop is a pretty good option here. One advantage 3betting has it prevents multiway pots etc.

      However, 3betting AKo from any position and stacking off vs a 4bet is going to be a leak in the long-run, so it's necessary to 3bet/fold AKo from some positions.
    • pokerferrer
      pokerferrer
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      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 6,347
      Omg, it is really awful to 3bet and fold 100 bb deep with AK. You are turning into bluff decent hand, so go and play this way 72o. If you are not ready to stack preflop giving the position, then flat it. It is not only value hand, but also an image move - opponents should know our range contains not only AA, KK.

      Call 4bet is a mariginal decision, I think with such stacks we can even fold it. But calling is an option because we can expect opponent to use stack sizes and postiton for some bluffing with blockers. But then we have to assume he should straightforward postflop.
      Also we can even stack preflop but you must consider this before 3betting if the opponent is pretty lose.
      As played: I really don't like flop call, even when there is gatshot for us. Queen suits to semibluff range and also there are flush draws possible.
      I would fold vs flop bet.
    • SherlockHolmes2ez
      SherlockHolmes2ez
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2012 Posts: 334
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
      SB ($13.78)
      BB ($13.58)
      UTG ($41.99)
      UTG+1 ($39.58)
      Hero ($46.35)
      BTN ($27.19)

      Dealt to Hero A:spade: K:heart:

      UTG raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.10, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to $4.50, Hero calls $2.40

      FLOP ($9.35) 4:club: Q:club: T:diamond:

      UTG bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25

      TURN ($19.85) 4:club: Q:club: T:diamond: 5:heart:

      UTG bets $7.75, Hero folds

      UTG wins $18.96

      30/30 10h

      Folding prelop is too weak I guess, 5bet is too light. I have position so call.

      Flop - 1/2 sizing is often a bluff, so I float with GS + overs.

      Turn - this is probably 100% value.
      Why do you call on the flop, you've just gut shot and 2 overs, but in this case overcards might be trouble
    • SherlockHolmes2ez
      SherlockHolmes2ez
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      Joined: 04.03.2012 Posts: 334
      Double post sorry.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
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      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,150
      Why do you call on the flop, you've just gut shot and 2 overs, but in this case overcards might be trouble


      If we assume his range is QQ+ then I agree about folding flop but at first - not even calling preflop.

      Somehow I thinked about his range having more semibluffs :D
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
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      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,329
      Originally posted by pokerferrer
      Omg, it is really awful to 3bet and fold 100 bb deep with AK. You are turning into bluff decent hand, so go and play this way 72o

      Poker is situational. If opponent continues to 3bet with a really wide range and only ever 4bets AA of course you'd 3bet/fold!

      Secondly it can also be ok to turn stronger hands into bluffs if there is a chance the players still to act behind may make flat-calling unprofitable.
    • pokerferrer
      pokerferrer
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      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 6,347
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      Secondly it can also be ok to turn stronger hands into bluffs if there is a chance the players still to act behind may make flat-calling unprofitable.
      If we flat preflop I will always 4bet-call vs squeeze (when UTG will fold), because hand is hidden. The worst sutiation is when bu flats and we lose absolute position, but it doesn't make our flatting unprofitable.
      Giving the current poker field strength, no one should fold preflop AK especially in 6-max game.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,329
      Ok, thanks for your opinion.

      Personally I feel that stacking with AKo in every position at 25nl is going to be a noticeable leak.

      You may find oblioos vid "facing a raise in MP" interesting.