AQ NL200 live

    • danielkiosev
      danielkiosev
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 6
      I played this hand in a live session last night so i'd try my best to recall it exactly :)
      HERO (BB):370 $
      UTG (UTG): $200
      MP (MP): $200
      VILLAIN (BTN): $490
      SB (SB): $200

      Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with A Club Q Diamond
      UTG calls 2, MP calls 2, VILLAIN raises 15, Hero calls 15, 1 fold, 1 fold, MP calls 15

      Flop: ($49.00) 6 Heart 6 Club 5 Diamond (3 players)
      HERO checks , MP checks, VILLAIN bets 20, HERO raises 65, 1 fold, VILLAIN calls 45

      Turn: ($179.00) 2 Heart (2 players)
      Hero checks, VILLAIN checks

      River: ($179.00) Q Club (2 players)
      Hero goes all-in , VILLAIN calls all-in

      BTN was a very poor LAG player who was raising and 3betting 98% of his buttons. I was afraid that one of the limpers was traying to limp/push with a monster so i called out of position with a hand which was crushing VILLAIN's range. On the flop i decided to turn my OK hand into a bluff. After the call i put him on 88-QQ or some STR draw or AK because I showed some bluffs and he could had tried to call me down with A-high. On the turn i prayed for a cheap showdown or my pair outs. I don't think a player like him would check behind air or monster on the turn. I thought the river was djinn. I tryed to over value bet the river putting him finally on hand better than A-high but worse than pair of quens. He had 6 8 and took around 4-5 minutes before calling.. I'd like to hear some opinions :) PS i had a read that he was c-betting air <1/2 pot and monsters 3/4 pot on the flop
  • 6 replies
    • football123
      football123
      Basic
      Joined: 13.03.2013 Posts: 31
      Checking on the turn doesn't make sense if you're not planning on giving up on the hand. If you really did have a monster it wouldn't make sense to raise on the flop then check on the turn. If you wanted to continue your bluff you'd need to bet the turn and if he called or raised you shut it down at that point. By checking the turn you gain no information on his hand and if you want to steal the pot you need to commit most of your stack on an out of position bet on the river where you've gained no information since the flop. Also putting him on 88-QQ, straight draw or AK isn't a good assumption. He's got 245BB so he's pretty deep stacked which greatly widens his range especially on the button so it's extremely possible that he's raising with a hand just like 6 8. You should have given up on the flop on this one.
    • arsenalua
      arsenalua
      Platinum
      Joined: 02.04.2013 Posts: 383
      LOL hand :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:
    • bradomurder
      bradomurder
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,329
      Firstly in live games like this players are generally bad, it makes sense to you that they would limp with the intention of limp-raising because you know the guy will probably raise, to them they probably think "oh, JTo, that's a call" or "I want to call but not a huge bet and I know he's 3betting heaps so I'll limp." 90% of the time you can take their actions at face value.

      so with that in mind I 3bet to $50, people generally don't fold to 3bets live because they don't want to look weak so there's decent value to be had.

      If you really think he'll only continue vs a check/raise with 88-QQ then a check/raise to take the pot down makes sense even though it turns your hand into a bluff. From the sound of this player that is pretty unlikely though. If I went for the ch/r I would barrel the turn

      You could check/call as a bluff catcher and fold if he continues on the turn or you could just take the easy option and wait for a better spot. It depends on who is pwning whom.

      The river shove doesn't make a lot of sense vs the range you've given him (88-QQ) because he'll have to fold anything but QQ. In reality his range is probably a lot wider than that so I would bet $90 and fold to a shove.
      As you say he'd probably bet his air on the turn so if he raises you can say he's got you beat most of the time
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      I think the flop checkraise is really bad since you remove all hands that are bluffing and that you beat, that could pay you off nicely eg. Ax/Qx if you both hit, while continuing to play out of position vs a range that you largely have (at best) 6 outs against.

      Live games are all about valuetowning fish when you hit, not spewy bluffs.

      I would be careful about looking for "betsizing tells" like the one you allegedly had on your opponent in live games, mainly because most fish do not have a clue how much is in the pot and only make bets in vague relation to how much was bet on the previous street.
    • danielkiosev
      danielkiosev
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 6
      10x for your opp .. I know i played it kind of bad pre and on the flop .. I gave up the turn but that queen .. I felt i had the best hand and i shoved for really thin value .. most of you think that the range i gave him 88-QQ would fold the river but i really think that he would pay me off. We had some dynamics ..
    • football123
      football123
      Basic
      Joined: 13.03.2013 Posts: 31
      It's tough to say you were betting for value on the river, any hand that you can beat is not going to call a pot sized bet there so even if you were ahead you're not going to get paid off. Top pair on a paired board with a possible straight out there isn't a hand you want to commit your whole stack to barring an exceptional read. In general at a 200NL live game you want to just play ABC poker anyways, players at that level players generally aren't observant enough to recognize any tendencies in your play. So just sit back and wait for a monster in these games and commit your whole stack then and you'll likely get paid off don't put your whole stack at risk on this type of hand because you will either lose your stack or not get paid off. Just learn from this hand and move on.