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Where to play midstakes+???

    • wiarygodny
      Joined: 16.07.2009 Posts: 1,395
      Ive been playing on Party for the past 1,5 years, atm im at <=54$ FR and <=33$ 6max. Due to recent changes in their software and VIP program i don't think i have much choice but to migrate somewhere else. Hopefully without having to drop the stakes obv. For a few reasons i don't want to go to Stars, not yet at least (main one being simply my account not being tracked).

      So I hope that maybe you guys can help me choose, at least give some info abt different rooms/networks, preferably based on your own experience.

      here is some additional info, wishes, reqirements:

      - atm im changing my main game from FR to 6max (no hypers though!) so i still play both, but i don't mix them in the same session (and don't want to change that if i dont have to)

      - for as long as possible i want to avoid playing games im not familiar with (KOs, DoNs, hypers, etc.)

      - FR - im happy to never play higher than ~50$, meaning that i don't care abt traffic at 100$+. The ideal would be to play 9-12 tables, the 'hierarchy' as follows - 50$ turbo > 50$ normal speed > 30$ turbo > 30$ normal etc. Not lower than 20$ though

      - 6max - i want to make it my main (and prolly only) game for the foreseeable future so even though i don't play HS atm im planning on getting there at some point :) hence im interested in traffic for 20$+ (both turbo and normal), up to 100$ lets say (all that 6-9 tabling), ill leave the higher games for when i move to Stars :)

      - Im pretty flexible when it comes to the time of the day i play so i don't really care when are the peak hours, as long as they exist, hopefully for at least 6-8hrs per day

      - the site must support HM1 (HM2 may be ok as well i guess, ill just have to get it) together with its HUD!

      - it would be nice if it worked with Table Ninja (i doubt it) or some kind of its equivalent

      - if you want to share your opinion on the level of the games on a particular site it would be nice although it's not super importatnt

      - im obv not interested in some silly Jackpot games etc. (unless you can actually convince me there's value in them :) )

      - Ive done my research on RB and FDBs so i dont really need any info abt that, but if you have any interesting info abt the history of monthly promotions ran by the room itself that an SnG grinder may benefit from (leaderbords etc.) it would be great if you want to share

      - if you have any info abt SnG players segregation (like they do for cash games on some sites) it would be great as well

      thats all i can think of at the moment. It would be great if you could provide answers along the lines of "on X network in the peak hours there is usually 3 50$ tables, 5-6 30$ tables and 10 20$ tables FR" or "ive never seen a 50$ FR running, 30$ very rarely - youll never gonna be able to multitable FR midstakes there", although im hoping for "on Y traffic is better than on Stars! 100$ 6max has ~20 tables 24/7!" :f_biggrin:

      From what i know my only hope is Ipoker or Ongame (although i believe traffic is getting worse on the latter, is that right?) so those are the networks im mostly interested in. However if youve got some good news abt other sites/networks (Microgaming? Revolution? PKR?) it would be great of course!

      some additional questions:
      does any of you have any reliable info on which Ipoker skin is in which tier (i assume im defintely not gonna be able to find gmaes on the low tier, right?)? I can't seem to find any official info abt it.

      my reasearch so far:

      top tier:
      Paddy Power
      William Hill

      low tier:

      does that look allright? can anybody confirm that? Does anybody have any info abt skins being downgraded/upgraded in the past? from what i know only Coral, Gala and Everest have been upgraded at some point, haven't found any info abt downgrades though. I'm simply worried that if that happens often it would be really difficult to make any midterm planning since i believe i can't play on the low tier and i heard the tier valuation is done on a monthly basis which may potentially mean a lot of fluctuation.

      Ive installed bet365 client to have a look and jeez it looks horrible (i already miss Party and that was pretty bad already). First of all the filter system is crap (unless i don't know how to use it). Abt an hour ago (friday evening) i had a look at traffic and it looks pretty pessimistic. the highest FR game running was 5$ or sth like that :) there were 6max up to 100$ but only DoN :) a few 50$ but only Jackpot (50+9$) :) the only games fullfiling my criteria were 3 tourneys (20$ and 30$). Thats can't be true, cmon! Is that really how it looks at the '2nd biggest poker network in the world' or am i just an idiot and couldn't find the games due to not using filters properly???

      Any help would be very much appreciated! Cheers guys!
  • 3 replies
    • kurrkabin
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Hi there, fellow :P

      So we go like this, nowadays, you really have two options-it's either stars...or stars. French stars.

      Besides the hours you can play, you have relatively high requirements tbh. But as I play both networks(stars and frequently, I can assure you that traffic/games are getting bad for everybody and I wouldn't imagine going SNE f.e. without mixing games. 60$ 6-max don't run very often, when they do-they are very reg fested. Not to mention 100-300$ stakes. You can imagine. Traffic is really bad for those(except for night time-which still isn't great, but ultra reg fested).

      The truth imo is mixing formats. You have to go flexible in order to play + EV games. That would include hypers, KOs, 9-max, 18-man, 6max turbos and reg speed. If you just wanna play 6max turbos, then you are stuck to playing 30-100$ for the most part with 30$ being your most dominant game by far.

      Forget about 9-tabling FR 50:30:20 games anywhere except for stars and doesn't apply for any stakes higher than midstakes(60$). SH games ofc offer better traffic and easier table selection, but as I mentioned before-moving up higher than midstakes is a pain! I am not saying you can't do it! You can if you give up on table selection and work at night. But believe me, fighting with 4 other regs, 1 fish tops is not much fun. You need to spend IMO endless hours of studying your reg opponents and try to look for leaks and adjustments. And when you have a reg like bigstealer and one more like him...well... I ain't joining.

      Stars is a great place for mixing 15-60$ though. That's the games you are looking for. You can get good variety of both.

      As for traffic is never an issue. traffic sucks until 5-6 p.m.(London Time+1 hour), but then you can 6-9table easily mixing hypers and 20-50 euro games. All 6max. Check 888 poker by the way. I think they also have some good games running, but it's weird 6max 50:30:20 pay out structure.

      Traffic at goes as high as 52-65k people at night.

      A lot of your other questions, f.e. about the rooms, I suggest you refer to our support department as they will know better.

      Overall, I will go like this-it's a monopole out there. For a SnG player whose ambition goes beyond low stakes, you gotta go stars. Forget about Ongame and Ipoker. Traffic sucks, software is not so good either. If you want good games/good traffic, you need to mix games. Exception would be for 15$-60$ 6-max turbo when you will always find games to run. Another thing to do is mixing up 2-3 rooms.


      P.s. try as I said microgaming(maybe) and 888, but I doubt you will get enough traffic.
    • wiarygodny
      Joined: 16.07.2009 Posts: 1,395
      hey buddy! thanks for such a detailed response! I knew i could count on you :)

      it's a shame that Ipoker isn't an option cause i was actually looking forward to take advantage of their 15k$ combined FDBs :)

      i'll definitelly have a closer look at the option, ive actually did already and thats most likely where im gonna end up moving to. Couple more questions if you dont mind and find a spare minute to answer:

      - withdrawals only by direct bank transfer for French plrs, do you happen to know whether more common options (Skrill?) are available for others?

      - is it even possible to have a $$$ acount there instead of Euro? Not that its a big issue, just wondering

      - ive tried to find some info abt the SnG rake there but for some reason i couldn't. Can you pls give me some rough numbers? Unfortunatelly i dont have time at the moment to register there properly to check myself - and i do want to do it 100% properly, meaning ps tracking, since this is absolutely my last option to ever get Black Member :) Ive seen some example numbers on the VIP calculations page ("€8.80+€1.20; €4.40 buy-in Sit & Go poker tournament with a €0.60 entry fee; €54 buy-in tournament with a €6") just want to confirm that. It does seem pretty expensive (btw is that 48+6 or 54+6?) but i guess its the result of the French government having a share in it. is the rake different depending on 6max/FR and Turbo/nonturbo like they do on .com? Their VIP system doesn't seem as great as the .com's one either. Normally all that would mean that potential profit (ROI+RB) would me much lower but maybe its not as bad as the player are weaker? Are they though? :)

      Thanks a lot and gl at the tables! it looks like there's some chance that we're gonna be meeting there soon on a regular basis :)

      p.s. off-topic - are you coming to the London's diamond event?

      edit: do you know whether Tourney tickets bought with FPPs are valid for SnGs as well or only MTTs? Cause that could help boost the RB at least a bit :)
    • kurrkabin
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      No worries, glad I could help.

      Rake goes like this, it's 8,6-8.7%, you play 10euro games, 20 euro games and 50euro games.

      Rake is as follow:

      0.87 euro for 10 euro game(both 6-max turbos and 6-max hypers) and 0.95 for 6-max normal speed

      1.74 euro for 20 euro SnGs(a bit more for normal speed)

      4.3 euro for 50 euro SnGs

      Hypers run all the way to 20 euros with that being the higher BI.

      Other SnGs run up to 50 euros. As you can see, there is no high stakes, but believe me-I think that's good. It made many regs move out.

      Multiply-er is 6.5 x per 1 euro raked instead of 5.5 x per $ raked. It makes reaching SN much easier than Yes, reward system is worse, but you have a 500 euro deposit bonus and with all the BoP and other promotions, you can certainly reach rakeb of 37-50%. Rake for hypers is high and unless you want to mix them in, traffic might be a prob for you to be honest. So keep that in mind.

      Withdraws are only made to your bank account. No skrill or other option is available. It doesn't matter if the account is in Euro or $. It will change it automatically depending on the currency rate.

      As for Ipoker, it might be an option by the way, if you mix say 2 rooms. So check our promotions also. Best is to ask somebody from our support department and check the traffic yourself. It is gonna be lower than french stars for sure though.

      All in all, french stars is suitable if you don't mind playing from 6-12 p.m. mixing formats(including hypers) within the 10-50 euro range. Prolly you can still play like 6+ tables 10-50 euro(with 10-20 euro being more dominant for sure) after 6-7 p.m. If you mix in hypers, your average BI can go as high as 22-23euro, which is not that bad.

      I like the room as they run nice promotions and currently I am getting a great rakeb deal. But as I said-check 888, microgaming and ask our support for help as they might be able to give you a very good deal considering the volume you can put. Never hurts to consider all your options.