Winning player stats

  • 15 replies
    • Glazenburg
      Glazenburg
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      Joined: 11.01.2008 Posts: 100
      I think it largely depends on the stake you play and if SH or FR

      SH on lower limits i would think you should have a normal SH VPIP (20%+) to see a lot of flops and do some nut peddling. PFR should be quite low (<10%) to get in as many donks as possible and because PFR doens't make any sense, because most players would call anyway..

      I prefer limp, reraise my aces btw. A simple raise from EP just doesn't make any sense on NL25, you only play for a bigger pot where everybody has an idea of your hand and your OOP.
      [comment on this plz]

      FR stats i don't know, but that largely depends if you play deep or short stack.

      Rolf Slotboom defines FR players like this:

      VPIP >30% Loose > 40 Very loose
      PFR >10% Aggro >20% Maniak

      Himself (short stacked) would play about 14-17% of his hands.

      Grtzz
    • DonCologne
      DonCologne
      Global
      Joined: 28.07.2006 Posts: 1,314
      In my PTO database over 100k hands I have winning players with 50/20 stats as I had some with 30/3 or 20/10.

      Its not holdem and preflop edges are smaller. So good postflop play becomes much more important for your win rate.

      If you play more hands pre, you will come in much more tricky spots. So for beginners it is the best advice to play tight, waiting to hit a flop hard and get the money from the 2nd best hands or even the 2nd best draws. This will work espacially in the smaller limits very well.
    • N4rk0
      N4rk0
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      Joined: 27.03.2008 Posts: 1,056
      To see if someone is a winning player or not you should have a lot of hands about him.....someone that play 1 hand yes and one no , i don't think it's a good player :baby: , just a catcher ..... tell me if i'm wrong
    • Grimzor
      Grimzor
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      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 421
      There are different play styles and each have different stats. And almost any style can be profitable if you master it. Telling what stats you should have is useless imo because you cant just start playing someones elses style just like that. If you want to see if you are going in the right direction tell us your stats and we might tell a thing or two what you can change.

      If you want to tell if person is good or not by stats then i think its quite clear who is good and who isnt :D 40/2 VPIP/PFR is obviously not good and 18/15 or so is obviously good.


      Originally posted by Glazenburg
      I prefer limp, reraise my aces btw. A simple raise from EP just doesn't make any sense on NL25, you only play for a bigger pot where everybody has an idea of your hand and your OOP.
      [comment on this plz]
      Limping aces makes little sense to me. Imo its like invitation "hey, bad hands over there, come and give a shot against my rockets. Hit something and i will pay you big." And if you ask me when it is more obvious that you have big pair - limp/raise from EP or just raise, its definitely limp raise. And more - do you play KK, QQ maybe AK also like that? After gathering some info on you it could get very obvious you limpraise AA and then its easy to exploit.
    • N4rk0
      N4rk0
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      Joined: 27.03.2008 Posts: 1,056
      I'm playing vpip 20 , pfr 4 , af flop 2.5 , af turn 1.5 , af river 1.5

      However wich are these different strategies ? Tell Tell :D
    • Grimzor
      Grimzor
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      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 421
      TAG and LAG are the most common. It should be written in strategy articles about them. For new players and actually for most players its suggested to use TAG approach.

      About your stats - your PFR is way too low. PFR should be like 2/3 of your VPIP. I think that some good stats could be like 18/15 or so for SH and like 16/12 for FR.

      I mostly play SNGs but sometimes play cash games as well and i think i was running 17/10 for SH and 14/9 or so for FR. But i havent played cash games in a while. And i dont think about how perfect or not my stats are. I take into consideration the things i need to look at and perhaps improve but still continue to play my game as its been working good for me so far.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
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      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by DonCologne

      Its not holdem and preflop edges are smaller. So good postflop play becomes much more important for your win rate.

      Which is why you can play 40/2 very profitably in a passive low-limit game just so long as you are able to play post-flop well enough.

      @N4rk0: If you feel comfortable playing 20/4 then I wouldn't change anything. I have a 13% vp$ip but I haven't got post-flop play quite sorted yet.
    • Grimzor
      Grimzor
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      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 421
      Originally posted by Nunki
      @N4rk0: If you feel comfortable playing 20/4 then I wouldn't change anything.
      I agree with this. But i also think that by raising only 4% of hands you miss quite a lot of value with your good hands. So if your play works good for you - keep it but also try to look where you can improve your game and i think raising more preflop could be one of the spots where you have room for improvements.
    • N4rk0
      N4rk0
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      Joined: 27.03.2008 Posts: 1,056
      So pfr 4 , how i thought , is too low?
    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
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      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      Originally posted by Grimzor

      Limping aces makes little sense to me. Imo its like invitation "hey, bad hands over there, come and give a shot against my rockets. Hit something and i will pay you big." And if you ask me when it is more obvious that you have big pair - limp/raise from EP or just raise, its definitely limp raise. And more - do you play KK, QQ maybe AK also like that? After gathering some info on you it could get very obvious you limpraise AA and then its easy to exploit.
      We agree about this being an Omaha forum? (as raising AKxx doesn't make sense in Omaha) :D

      I like few raises playing Omaha at micro limits, as the preflop edge is small, and you can outplay your opponents postflop. :)
    • MrSvingKing
      MrSvingKing
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.11.2007 Posts: 135
      In NL Grimzor is the one spot on.

      I play 16/13/3ish and working to get it up a bit to 18/16/3

      A 20+/<10/x guy will be loosing long term.

      Trust me, I startet up back in 2006 with stats like 27/4/1 and I have to deposit money every month untill I got tired of it. Left the poker tables and went back serious in november 2007 and I only depositet twice.

      Working on my BR to get it up and up.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      It's not as simple as in NL to say: these are good values...
      They do not exist. Good players usually have a vpip between 15 and 35 and a pfr between 10 and 25. That doesn't help a lot, so do not concentrate that much on stats, especially not on preflop stats.

      TribunCaesar
    • samiow
      samiow
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 37
      I am 23/12 in FR
    • frenacoxes
      frenacoxes
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2007 Posts: 3,495
      30k hands in pl10 and pl20

      i have winnings with
      vpip 44%
      pr 9.4
      AF 1.8
    • tool8
      tool8
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2008 Posts: 1,849
      Any thoughts about winrate? How many ptbb/100 could you expect on your limits?