18 BI lost after won 250$ at tourney

    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Hello,
      I'm very fustrated about what happened to me on William Hill.

      I started to think that most, if not all online poker are using such a system to always be near break even in order to generate more rake, by giving such set-ups that fishes always hit their draws, overcards, making 2 pairs or better.
      If I hit Top Pair, he get 2 pairs, trips.
      When I got str8, he make flush or full house.
      If I get 2 pair, fish got set or better.
      On bwin had a similar situation, after I've had some decent sessions.

      This system started to activate when I won 250$ on a freeroll ticket.
      http://picturescream.com/x/clean/images/2013/08/15/2U5EG.png
      http://picturescream.com/x/clean/images/2013/08/15/LrxnB.png

      I made a good mid term plan and wanted to play poker full time, but now I don't feel like continuing, at least not on this platform.

      Also whats with this bots, as I see them everywhere at +NL10, lost a bunch of money to them:
      http://www10.pic-upload.de/25.06.13/wijefhqixek6.jpg

      I've lost about 18 BI on cash games and everything I tried, I ended up losing money. I lowered the stake at NL4 but things didn't change, and I decide I need rethink my strategy.

      I would also like to know oppinions from people which claim they are generating 1k-2k $ monthly and do this job full time.

      Also please suggest what to do next?
      Trying to move to live poker or switching platform?
      What platform do you suggest?
      About every platform I have read people complaining they are rigged (ofcouse some are fustrated because they lose, but also have read regs complains with lots of hands samples).
  • 22 replies
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      lol donkaments
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Bad players complain. Good players move on and keep winning.
    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      your superficial attitude's won't help me.

      I have played poker for a living 3-4 years ago when SSS was strong and profitable.
      I gave up for a period as my other business was doing great.

      Last 3-4 month I received free 20$ on William Hill and I said I would give it a shot.
      I lost them and thats only got me stubborn and was playing 0.15$ SNG, freerolls and micro stakes games until I build up a decent bankroll. Then I passed through the limits until I made 500$ (without that 250$ winnings).

      I'm not a donk who was lucky and won 250$ and complain that I lost my money !

      I have analyzed my play and yes I made some big mistakes in this last period, but not more then 4-5 BI.

      I have already moved on, as I'm playing poker on other platform (I've had bankroll from backgammon).

      What is your suggestions do keep playing on William Hill, as the downswing will be over? Or should I move to other platform?
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      Originally posted by diutza
      your superficial attitude's won't help me.

      I have played poker for a living 3-4 years ago when SSS was strong and profitable.
      I gave up for a period as my other business was doing great.

      Last 3-4 month I received free 20$ on William Hill and I said I would give it a shot.
      I lost them and thats only got me stubborn and was playing 0.15$ SNG, freerolls and micro stakes games until I build up a decent bankroll. Then I passed through the limits until I made 500$ (without that 250$ winnings).

      I'm not a donk who was lucky and won 250$ and complain that I lost my money !

      I have analyzed my play and yes I made some big mistakes in this last period, but not more then 4-5 BI.

      I have already moved on, as I'm playing poker on other platform (I've had bankroll from backgammon).

      What is your suggestions do keep playing on William Hill, as the downswing will be over? Or should I move to other platform?
      Hi, diutza,
      I sympathize completely.

      I deposited all my poker money from all other sites onto William Hill.
      I was then rolled for 25 BI of NL 10.
      I took a shot at NL 50 <what an idiot!>
      I won one BI straight off, but was so nervous playing that 100 hands that I dropped to NL 25, lost 2 BI and said, OK NL 10 it is.

      Thsn, in 10K hands I lost 10 BI
      So now I'm down to NL 4, and gaining oh, so slowly.

      My conclusiion -- for myself, not for you, necessarily -- is that BR is not all that matters, Even though I was rolled for NL 10, I was not prepared for it.

      Oddly, I was winning at NL 10 on the two rooms I pulled my money from.

      I see nothing wrong with William Hill.
      I have not found anyone I was convinced was a bot.
      At NL 4 and NL 4 Speed, they are notoriously nitty, and thus exploitable.

      I hear discouragement in you posts, though.

      I recommend that you take a step back.
      Play short sessions, watch coachings and get hands evaluated.

      Read "The Mental Game of Poker" and follow the procedures in that book.
      It costs a lot less than a single NL 25 BI.

      Best of Luck...
      --VS
    • divvie
      divvie
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2010 Posts: 3,293
      If you think pokersites use some kind of system to help bad players or think its rigged id suggest you quit playing poker. You obviously dont have the correct mindset to play poker then.

      So easy to always come and whine and complain about pokersites if you lose. How do we know that all of ur lost hands are played correctly? Since ur playing microstakes im pretty sure there are enough hands that arent played correctly. How do we know that you actually invest time in learning strategy/post hands/get involved in discussions so that you actually have a clue what you are doing? To me ur just another crying tit that screams rigged if aces dont hold.

      edit: I would deffo recommend playing on an other site, cus the variance is obviously lower there than on WH lol
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by diutza
      your superficial attitude's won't help me.

      I have played poker for a living 3-4 years ago when SSS was strong and profitable.
      I gave up for a period as my other business was doing great.

      Last 3-4 month I received free 20$ on William Hill and I said I would give it a shot.
      I lost them and thats only got me stubborn and was playing 0.15$ SNG, freerolls and micro stakes games until I build up a decent bankroll. Then I passed through the limits until I made 500$ (without that 250$ winnings).

      I'm not a donk who was lucky and won 250$ and complain that I lost my money !

      I have analyzed my play and yes I made some big mistakes in this last period, but not more then 4-5 BI.

      I have already moved on, as I'm playing poker on other platform (I've had bankroll from backgammon).

      What is your suggestions do keep playing on William Hill, as the downswing will be over? Or should I move to other platform?
      You might be slightly winning player pre rake, but rake at micros is very big, I think for NL10 at stars it is 7bb/100, at WH probably higher than this, so you might be winning but rake takes so much of the money that you're losing afterwards. Also 4-5BI worth of mistakes is a LOT, especially given that lets say your post-rake winrate is something like 2bb/100 it will take you 10000 hands to get back the 5BI, and if your post-rake winrate is negative, then, well its not coming back and you're just gonna be losing chips in the long run. And of course you can be running bad but there's nothing you can do about that, whereas you can do something about improving your winrate
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by diutza
      your superficial attitude's won't help me.

      I have played poker for a living 3-4 years ago when SSS was strong and profitable.
      I gave up for a period as my other business was doing great.

      Last 3-4 month I received free 20$ on William Hill and I said I would give it a shot.
      I lost them and thats only got me stubborn and was playing 0.15$ SNG, freerolls and micro stakes games until I build up a decent bankroll. Then I passed through the limits until I made 500$ (without that 250$ winnings).

      I'm not a donk who was lucky and won 250$ and complain that I lost my money !

      I have analyzed my play and yes I made some big mistakes in this last period, but not more then 4-5 BI.

      I have already moved on, as I'm playing poker on other platform (I've had bankroll from backgammon).

      What is your suggestions do keep playing on William Hill, as the downswing will be over? Or should I move to other platform?
      dude, your superficial and childish post will probably get superficial and mocking responses.

      I'm just curious, you wanted to know the opinion of someone making 1/2k a month, aka making a living playing this game, and now you claim you played poker for a living 3-4 years ?( ?(

      your attitude is not helping at all, you say you have analysed your play and you shouldn't be losing more than 4-5 BI, that's some deep analysis, what do you expect from the community then :) ?
      I don't want to come off as rude or anything, but you are probably just bad, and I don't think you will get any better with this attitude, if you are willing to share some hands, stats, spots where you feel uncomfortable taking a decision etc .... I would be more then willing to give my humble opinion and help you, same goes for the whole community I'm sure. but if you keep being stubborn and insist that poker is rigged and all that ridicleous stuff, you will only get mocked and laughed at.
    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Thanks VorpalF2F and others, critics only make me more stubborn :D

      I probably can't stay away from poker, even if I want to...

      I did invest time almost daily for studying, watching videos, analyze my game...of course I still have a lot to learn. Thats the reason why I can't just give up poker over night.

      I'm not happy to lose in 3-4 days more then I won last month.

      It kinda messing my head and ruin my future plans, thats the problem, not the money I have lost.

      So the question is if I can make more money now or in the future, then I would make by having an internet job (already have some skills in both of them).

      Being in the downswing also influence the peoples around me, as I'm not in a very good mood for chit chat after I lose 40$ in 700 hands.

      Conclusion: Will continue my daily scheledule with less tables or lower limit playing currently on Party, watching videos and improve my game.
      BTW Party on NL10 has much more :f_p: then Ipoker !

      Will set a limit which I can lose, then will put the money into another platform, was thinking about Microgaming - Unibet.
      If I'm losing there too, will switch to full time live poker and only after that, will try to find an alternative to make money.
    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by booomm

      dude, your superficial and childish post will probably get superficial and mocking responses.

      I'm just curious, you wanted to know the opinion of someone making 1/2k a month, aka making a living playing this game, and now you claim you played poker for a living 3-4 years ?( ?(

      your attitude is not helping at all, you say you have analysed your play and you shouldn't be losing more than 4-5 BI, that's some deep analysis, what do you expect from the community then :) ?
      I don't want to come off as rude or anything, but you are probably just bad, and I don't think you will get any better with this attitude, if you are willing to share some hands, stats, spots where you feel uncomfortable taking a decision etc .... I would be more then willing to give my humble opinion and help you, same goes for the whole community I'm sure. but if you keep being stubborn and insist that poker is rigged and all that ridicleous stuff, you will only get mocked and laughed at.
      1. I said I have played 3-4 years ago a period for like 1 year, then poker sites raised the buyins to more then 20BB.
      I dropped poker, as I've had to learn everything from start again BSS and I've had a better alternative

      2. I've had some problems, had some people working at the house, making noise, and I though I'm comfortable playing even with less focus, but I've had some very hard decisions to take on and made mistakes like couldn't fold a set :(
      I haven't said I shouldn't be losing more then 4-5 BI, 4-5 BI was part of my mistakes.
      18 BI - 5 = 13 BI
      I've had a very hard period and I usually not get tilted by the downswings, but I've had 13 BI or more in a few days, and its the first when I'm losing so much, didn't know if its normal.
      Played 8385 hands, net won $-187.55, BB/100 --> -15.28
      Last month: 26,749, net won $84.54, BB/100 ---> +7.10

      The results are mostly the same limits
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      but who cares dude, it is rigged after all.
    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      yes rake can be a b1tch, but I was following every promotions and playing every free ticket of freeroll with decent value.
      Always buying bonuses, so I get the most out of my points generated.
      Got some nice prizes at some of that tickets :)
    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by booomm
      but who cares dude, it is rigged after all.
      My oppinion about online poker sites is that the RNG is a bit manipulated, but that doesn't mean you can't make profit, you just make less.
      We also would like to have a decent $/h, as the life is very short :)
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by diutza
      Originally posted by booomm
      but who cares dude, it is rigged after all.
      My oppinion about online poker sites is that the RNG is a bit manipulated, but that doesn't mean you can't make profit, you just make less.
      We also would like to have a decent $/h, as the life is very short :)
      so you think RNG is manipulated, and they are scamming you, but you keep playing anyway ?
    • diutza
      diutza
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by booomm
      Originally posted by diutza
      Originally posted by booomm
      but who cares dude, it is rigged after all.
      My oppinion about online poker sites is that the RNG is a bit manipulated, but that doesn't mean you can't make profit, you just make less.
      We also would like to have a decent $/h, as the life is very short :)
      so you think RNG is manipulated, and they are scamming you, but you keep playing anyway ?
      considering the money they take from every player in rake, we can argue that they are scamming everybody :s_cool:

      thanks for reading my post and trying to make me look fishy, because if you haven't been writing here, I would never saw your blog with 27 BI downswing.
      I fell much better now :D

      I think the tilt its leaving me and I'm getting ready for 2-4k hands per day serious grinding :f_p:
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by diutza
      Originally posted by booomm
      Originally posted by diutza
      Originally posted by booomm
      but who cares dude, it is rigged after all.
      My oppinion about online poker sites is that the RNG is a bit manipulated, but that doesn't mean you can't make profit, you just make less.
      We also would like to have a decent $/h, as the life is very short :)
      so you think RNG is manipulated, and they are scamming you, but you keep playing anyway ?
      considering the money they take from every player in rake, we can argue that they are scamming everybody :s_cool:

      thanks for reading my post and trying to make me look fishy, because if you haven't been writing here, I would never saw your blog with 27 BI downswing.
      I fell much better now :D

      I think the tilt its leaving me and I'm getting ready for 2-4k hands per day serious grinding :f_p:
      well I never tried to make you look like a fish or whatever, that's just what I think, as I said I don't want to be mean or rude or anything, but things has to be said.
      well anyway I wish you never go through a 27BI downswing, from what I see that would prob destroy your mindset, but yeah it certainly helps to see what can actually happen in poker. I wish you best of luck, but if you are going to still believe that poker is rigged, I highly advice you to play chess or whatever.

      again, best of luck :)
    • champ44
      champ44
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.10.2010 Posts: 80
      i m sure there a mistakes which u r hiding or its just ur bad run that u r thinkin these things.u will get over it as i did.lol i used ti hv same feelings erlier
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      My blog is all about my comeback from "insane monkey tilt" -- or accumulated tilt as Jared Tendler calls it.

      It is a process, and a long slow one.

      Not mentioned in Jared's book, is the concept of faith.

      There are three things that you MUST believe unconditionally
        The game is fair -- equal to all players.
        The laws of mathematics governs the long term outcome
        You personally have -- or can acquire -- the skills to be a winning player.

      If you do not believe in ALL THREE of those things, you MUST NOT play poker for the purpose of winning money.

      You may play it for the fun of it, winning sometimes, and losing sometimes, but so long as you don't risk more than you can afford to lose, you can still enjoy yourself.

      So search yourself.
      Do you have what it takes?

      If so then get busy studying -- study you game and others.

      If you truly got sucked out on that many times shrug it off.

      If you have HM2 or PT4 make a custom hand marking called "sucked out" -- I think that they come with one called 'bad beat"

      Track how many times YOU suck out.

      It will surprise you.

      Peace,
      --VS
    • JimC6
      JimC6
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2011 Posts: 458
      I am feeling the pain on willhill too.

      Playing some sitngo's to get the 150 points for the $10k freeroll next month and I am taking a variance ass kicking.

      My TJc on KcQc5s flop all in against 76o they hit 48.

      My TT v J7s all in pre they hit a J.

      My 77 v JJ all in on flop 7Q5 they river J

      My AQ v 54 all in pre they hit

      My A4c v T6o pre they hit

      my KTo v TT all in on flop K88 and they hit 1 outer.



      That is how I have busted or lost almost all my chips in 6 of the last 10 I've played. 3 I cashed in and 1 I got it in behind KQ v AA.



      If there is any justice all my good luck is being saved for the $10k and I win the package.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Ok this post is really getting out of hand.

      diutza from your opening post what comes out is inexperience and attitude problem.

      booomm was addressing your inexperience in a sarcastic manner and VorpalF2F was addressing your attitude problem in a more serious/helpful manner.

      The so called attitude issue I think exists with every player especially when they are inexperienced and the attitude changes as experience is gained. Let me try and break down what exactly they are trying to say.

      Lol Donkaments, a popular belief that new players win some money in some MTT or freeroll and think they are good players and lose it all later on quite quickly. booomm assumes you are a new player and going through the same thing that everyone does its just that if you really are a new player you won't even understand the humor.

      started to think that most, if not all online poker are using such a system to always be near break even in order to generate more rake, by giving such set-ups that fishes always hit their draws, overcards, making 2 pairs or better. If I hit Top Pair, he get 2 pairs, trips. When I got str8, he make flush or full house. If I get 2 pair, fish got set or better. On bwin had a similar situation, after I've had some decent sessions.


      Inexperience and attitude reflected here cause right off the bat you started with an attitude that you are just not gonna win the battle, so well all the luck in the world won't change that.

      Then you complain about them having a better hand than yours all the time. From my experience I know if thats happening then you are completely putting him on the wrong range and have a lot more to learn and can use the time spent on the negativity to do something positive like learn some basic concepts.

      No they can't have the best hand all the time its not possible, if nothing just by looking at VPIP/PFR you can always have a fair idea of what range you are up against and thats not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to putting them on a range.

      So basically what I am saying is, leave everything aside and post your stats here in this forum, post a screen shot of your stats from HM2, PT4 whatever. Post some hands where you did lose a lot or you feel they showed up with a better hand than what you thought they'd have.

      You have put in 80k+ hands so you have taken this a bit seriously so you'll have meaningful stats to make sense of as to what is happening.

      So stop saying stuff like bots/RNG/rigged and we'll stop saying stuff like lol donkaments, post the screenshot for the report leakbuster by position and we'll take it from there.
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