Bronze Charts - Details

    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      Well, I think there are some little things that should be changed in the bronze charts. One of them is the call with 32s in the chart "Actions against callers in front of you", with 3+ limpers. Maybe something like 54s would be more appropriate, because of the fact 32s can only hit very few straights, will be often at the bottom end, and can hit only 1 OESD on the flop. While a hand like 54s can hit more straights, and 3 different OESDs on flop, so it has much better playability IMO.

      And maybe some suited gappers could be included instead, maybe J9s or T8s, even 97s would be worth more than 32s. Also, if there is a raise after I call, I'd feel much more comfortable calling one of those hands than 32s (which hardly would be getting the right odds).

      And I also have a suggestion for a new chart, it would be like "Big Blind with callers and raisers in front of you". Let's say I'm holding AJo or KQo in the BB, some MP raises and 2 players call the raise. Now I'm getting 7.5:1 odds for my call, but according to the chart "Calling/Raising with raises and callers in front of you", I should fold my hand (which hardly is correct). In these cases it's clear I should call, but with hands like QTo or maybe K9s I'm not sure if calling or folding is more correct.

      So it would be nice to have the calling ranges for the BB when you're getting nice odds and another advantage in that situation is that you're practically closing the preflop action (nobody is likely raising after you).

      What do you think?
  • 4 replies
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hi Amirapuato,

      I like your ideas.
      You can report the first one of your own by just using the formula we have at the right side of our artictles. With that way our article writers get it immediatly (at least I guess it's that way).

      The second is a bit questionable as it's not easy for beginners to play these hand. That is probably the reason why it's not in there.
      As you can see at the approx chart you simply use the odds and outs princip to decide in these situations.
      Sure we could create a way more complex chart for that based on the 35% equity princip. Maybe we could that that here? Any ideas how we can create such a chart?
    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      Hi ciRith and thx for the reply. :)

      I've already reported the first one the way you told me, hopefully it'll get to the right people.

      About the second one, I agree, it's not always easy to play those hands after the flop, and for beginners it'll be better just folding it preflop.

      For creating the new chart, I'll start from the suggestion you should have at least 70% of the avg equity to call from the BB, so the needed equity would be something like this:

      HU = 35% equity (for this we have already the BB defense chart)
      3-way = 23.5% equity (1 raiser + 1 caller)
      4-way = 17.5% equity (1 raiser + 2 callers)
      5-way = 14% equity (1 raiser + 3 callers or more)

      Now I only need to estimate some hand ranges (for the raiser and the callers), and then equilator will do it's work. :)

      I'll also review the approx chart referring to this matter, to include some hands with nice playability. :)
    • harleytopper
      harleytopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2007 Posts: 680
      I have question about this 35% in BB. I understand you need pay less in BB so you can call with wider handrange. But how it is calculated?
    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      @harleytopper: It's easy, lets say the whole table folds to the SB, and he raises. Now, there are 3 small bets in the pot (2 by raiser, and one is your blind), and you have to call one more to see a flop. You need an equity of more than 25% against the SB range to make this call +EV. But as you'll be calling hands with bad playability sometimes, and because SB range could be less wide than assumed, it's better to have an edge, so it became 35% (only HU).