Playing profitably

    • Tavore
      Tavore
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2013 Posts: 88
      Hi, I was just wondering how many of you guys just sort of started successful,

      I mean we all hear about players like Blom and Dwan who started their multi million dollar careers off the back of a $50 deposit but obviously no one will write articles about your average joe player who picks up poker as a hobby/ vested interest.

      Do you guys think there's more winners than losers out there?
      How hard did any of you guys find it starting off in the micros and moving up either through building your roll through winning or adding though deposits and taking a shot?

      Cheers,

      Tav
  • 16 replies
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      There's definitely more losers than winners. Without rake it might be even but when Stars is taking almost half a stack off the table every 100 hands (and they have the lowest rake of all sites) obviously there's gonna be more losers than winners.

      People who are winning 5bb/100 pre-rake will be losing after rake at most limits except at like NL200+.

      So, to win at a limit you have to be A LOT better than your opponents, not just a little. Table selection helps a good amount with this.

      It is difficult to be profitable, because as soon as you are in one limit you still gotta break through to the next.

      To beat NL2 took me a few k hands, NL10 took a while and still am struggling a little with NL25 at the moment...I have taken a few aggressive shots including NL50 one that didn't work out, but I don't regret it. If you can afford the shot,what you lose in money you gain in experience.

      The microstakes are not about making money, they're about getting good enough so that you can play the stakes where you actually can make money.
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      Originally posted by metza

      The microstakes are not about making money, they're about getting good enough so that you can play the stakes where you actually can make money.

      I like this word of wisdom :D
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by Acespeci
      Originally posted by metza

      The microstakes are not about making money, they're about getting good enough so that you can play the stakes where you actually can make money.

      I like this word of wisdom :D
      Well put metza !
      I don't think I have ever seen this basic fact put so simply.

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • teofiloatienza
      teofiloatienza
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2012 Posts: 78
      Originally posted by Acespeci
      Originally posted by metza

      The microstakes are not about making money, they're about getting good enough so that you can play the stakes where you actually can make money.

      I like this word of wisdom :D
      tell that to BlackRain79 lol :f_biggrin:
    • pockettones
      pockettones
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.03.2013 Posts: 114
      Back in the day building a roll from $50 to a few thousand was sooo much easier as most people generally didn't know how to play, games really started to toughen up after black friday.

      I'm not really a success, I play NL5 and will prolly move up to NL10 next week but prior to this I busted one roll playing NL2 on Titan, but have managed to slowly move up since (atm I reg at stars). I've played around 120k hands, 80k of which have been at NL5... so thats a lot of time lol. My biggest advice to you is always be honest to yourself - no matter how good you think you are you can ALWAYS improve. I found out that I had some pretty big mental game issues where I would get really angry after successive suckouts and then become spewy. I also feel fatigued a lot of the time and during these times I'd just autopilot and not really think things through and get into tough spots and make pretty bad decisions - I can't really do much about this right now apart from just not playing. As for my technical game, I used to call pretty darn loose and not bet my strong hands enough (this still applies lol). Adjusting against different types of fish is also pretty important at the micros - betting and overbetting call stations, calling down maniacs fairly light and inducing bluffs from them etc. The regs will also be quite exploitable - many of them rarely fold to 3bet so against them I never 3bet bluff but always 3bet value hands, and against the nits you can pretty much 3bet them with impunity :p. Against extremely high cbet% you can float them on low/dry boards where they are mindlessly cbetting, a lot of regs also tend to fairly cally and some of them will only call with top pair so you should adjust your cbets accordingly... I think I'm a little off topic here lol.

      Right now I'm 2 BI off moving to Nl10 where I will have 40BI :)

      Pretty much micros are a great place to learn poker without risking too much money - your main focus should be improving your game and moving up. These days, it can take quite a while... or I'm just a slow learner lol. I know a lot of my hands where just mindless grinding, so I'm sure if a micros player focuses on gameplay from day one and post hands for review rather than grind without paying much attention to spots where they could have done something better, they will move up a lot faster than I did.
    • mafrendd
      mafrendd
      Basic
      Joined: 28.04.2013 Posts: 11
      I think yes, its possible to move up even from nl2 to nl400 or so. All you need to do, is try not to cash out your winnings or your rakebacks, and try to be a winning player. Then soon enough you will see you are playing highers stakes with a solid bankroll management like- you play the level if you have 50 buyins and move down if you dont have that.

      And from your point of i view i would disagree with others who told ya that there are more losing players than winning players. Obviously you know that answer. But if you ask the question to we people, who play poker not as only a recreational purpose, yes among us there are more winning players than the number of losers. And as you are researching things associating your thoughts with so many poker intellects here in pokerstrategy forum you will for sure be a good winning players and crawl the limits.
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      Which limit do you play mafrendd?
    • mafrendd
      mafrendd
      Basic
      Joined: 28.04.2013 Posts: 11
      used to play nl50 nl100. But now not being regular in poker thats why moved down in stake and playing micros. :)
    • N0pr3s3n7
      N0pr3s3n7
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 14.05.2009 Posts: 1,274
      Just for you guys , NL 2 - NL 400 and higher at the moment . Most of the money are EUR but shown as USD . Also didnt include obvious rakeback . 3 years of playing , and still I was complete bankroll nit and never moved with less than 100 BI for upper limit. Started off with 10 $ free on a site of prima network , since i lost my initial 50 $ from PS.

    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      NL2-400 in 3 years starting from free money
      Am motivated by your poker journey :]

      thanks.


      Any blogs?
    • Ranks8
      Ranks8
      Basic
      Joined: 16.11.2013 Posts: 4
      Grinding - MSS Full Ring

      I just started to blog here!
    • darkpenance0
      darkpenance0
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.10.2010 Posts: 156
      Site selection helps, some sites are really nitty (ipoker) and its tough to make any kind movement but others such as 888 and pkr are really fishy, those are the sites you wanna play on to move up limits quickly.

      I am an on and off player, I dont have the discpline or the will to build from nothing into something but the best I did was on 888 where I started with $20 and ended up withdrawing $1700. My plan was then to build from the bonus on william hill which ended up going badly, the only time i ever withdrew having made a loss and since then I just havent had the time to take another shot.

      My friend gave me $30 as thnx for coaching him through a tournament and I got that up to $103 on full tilt, I have withdrawn that and put it into gala poker to hit the 10k freeroll. Whatever i end up after the bonus expires is what i'll withdraw and redeposit on the next 10k freeroll site. Hopefully that will build me up a br so I can take another shot on 888 and try and get back into the thousands again.

      I have no idea if this is going to work as it failed last time on william hill but I was still playing the tables like I did on 888 cus it worked stupidly well on that site but it failed horribly on wh. So this time round on ipoker I am playing much tighter, ive only played 300 hands so far on 5/10 and am slightly up ($3) It would have been $20 but I got sucked out in an all in hand.

      I figure though so long as I make some money by the end of the bonus expiration its been worthwhile and hey you never know I might cash out big in a tournament during my tenure.
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      Playing on Ipoker is nitty as you said so you will have to adjust yur game and steal more. You can always try 6max if its too tight for you to clear your bonus then move back to 888 poker which has been very profitable for you.

      I will try 888 poker thanks for your suggestion.
      I love me some fish and I want to move up quickly
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by Acespeci
      Playing on Ipoker is nitty as you said so you will have to adjust yur game and steal more. You can always try 6max if its too tight for you to clear your bonus then move back to 888 poker which has been very profitable for you.

      I will try 888 poker thanks for your suggestion.
      I love me some fish and I want to move up quickly
      888poker is super fishy at micro/low stakes, but rake is enormeous and rakeback is close to non existant unless you hit platinium (like 2500 rake every month), so you should take that in to account.
    • Yonose
      Yonose
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2012 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by N0pr3s3n7
      Just for you guys , NL 2 - NL 400 and higher at the moment . Most of the money are EUR but shown as USD . Also didnt include obvious rakeback . 3 years of playing , and still I was complete bankroll nit and never moved with less than 100 BI for upper limit. Started off with 10 $ free on a site of prima network , since i lost my initial 50 $ from PS.

      nice graph man
    • Kubaiscz
      Kubaiscz
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2011 Posts: 752
      werry nice!
      this is SH or FR tables?