Playing in and out of position

    • Affluenza
      Affluenza
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2012 Posts: 19
      I can't seem to grasp playing ''in and out'' of position

      Ok so the last person in the pot to act is in position on the flop right? Meaning they will be last to act on the flop

      BvB If I raise into the BB from the SB though I am first to act?

      Sorry for the stupid question but I am having a hard time understanding when I am in and out of position.

      Hope you guys are able to help and provide me with some examples

      Thanks a lot!
      Affluenza.
  • 10 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      Hi, Affluenza

      It's a good question actually...

      If you raise from the SB pre-flop, and get called from the BB, then the BB is last to act post flop.

      It all starts with the dealer or "button".
      In modern play the first player to act makes a bet "blind" he must bet before he sees his cards.
      The next player technically min-raises that bet -- also "blind". He must make the bet in order to see cards.

      These are called the small and big blinds.

      Although forced, these bets are live -- in other words, even if called, the big blind can re-raise. Other than this one time, a player who calls the raiser stops the action.

      Post flop, the Button is always last to act.
      This gives him the advantage of watching every other players actions before making his own decision.

      If the button folds, the CO, then MP etc become last to act.

      This is why you can open wider from the BTN.
      If you open raise, the SB and BB must have pretty good hands to come along, because they will have to act first.

      So, to sum up:
      You are "In position" if the other player must act first.
      You are "Out of position" if you must act first.

      In multi-way pots, a person can be both in position and out of position depending on which other player you compare him to.

      An example:
      MP bets preflop.
      BTN calls
      BB calls

      BB must play first post-flop.
      He is out of position.

      MP acts next.
      He is in position compared to BB, but out-of-position compared to BTN

      BTN is in position compared to both.

      I hope that helped...
      --VS
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      poker is a game of incomplete information, being IN position gives more informations, thus giving more information, that's why position is the power.
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      poker is a game of incomplete information, being IN position gives more informations, thus position is the power.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Even though it probably wasn't intentional the above statement is definitely important enough to warrant being stated twice. :f_thumbsup:
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      I have nothing to add to that except I couldn't agree more :f_thumbsup:

      Regards,

      Mal.
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hey Affluenza!

      Everything said here is awesome already!

      I'm gonna mess things up though :facepalm:

      There are coaches that say that there isn't out and in position. (I know why do they make it so difficult? :( I don't know)
      Lets say you are in the BU playing against MP on the flop. You are last to act so you are in position. But are you last to act? Only if you check you are last to act, if you bet MP still have to act behind you!

      But like I said what ppl said above me is awesome, but it's interesting to keep this in mind.

      Regards

      RasTweet
    • Affluenza
      Affluenza
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2012 Posts: 19
      Thank you guys so much! I have been struggling to find a good sourse of info on this for some time, most places just say ''Been in position is good as we are last to act and we have more info on each street'' None really told me WHEN are we in position.

      Again thanks a lot :)
      Affluenza
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      I would add that you should think that you are either IN position or OUT of position in a given pot with all the players in that pot, rather that I am in MP in a 5 way pot so I am IP to the SB and UTG but OOP to CO and BU. I that case you are OOP and BU is IP. position is probably the most important concept in poker and IMO there is no middle ground, you are either IP or not.

      learn to take advantage of the info you get IP and you'll print $$$
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Even though it probably wasn't intentional the above statement is definitely important enough to warrant being stated twice. fish thumbsup


      that was def not intentional, couldn't figure out how to delete it :f_mad:

      Originally posted by RasTweet
      Hey Affluenza!

      Everything said here is awesome already!

      I'm gonna mess things up though :facepalm:

      There are coaches that say that there isn't out and in position. (I know why do they make it so difficult? :( I don't know)
      Lets say you are in the BU playing against MP on the flop. You are last to act so you are in position. But are you last to act? Only if you check you are last to act, if you bet MP still have to act behind you!

      But like I said what ppl said above me is awesome, but it's interesting to keep this in mind.

      Regards

      RasTweet

      that's misleading and completely wrong. there is difference between being "last to act" and "closing the action", you are talking about closing the action on a given street, wich isn't that much of an advantage a part from specific situations let's say for exemple you have 87s in the SB, UTG raises, mp and co calls, you call obv and BB squeezes, utg calls, so does mp and co, now you are out of position, but you have the advantage of closing the actions, wich means if you call with a mediocre but highly playable hand, no one has the option to 4bet and bomb you off your hand, so you take a flop for very good pot/implied odds and life is beautiful, but that is a very specific situation that won't happen that often.
      I would love to hear a coach arguing about what you just said, because it makes no sense, being last act dosen't mean you close the action, when vilain checks to you, you get to chose wether to bet or check depending on your interpretation of his check, does he like to check raise his big hands? bluffs? draws? does he check/fold too often? wheras if you act first you cannot control the pot or take any optimal decisions unless you have the mortal nuts or close to it, and even then, being in position gives you the opportunity to get more value in most cases.

      I hope everything is clear, sorry I'm writing this in a rush but bottom line is that position is the power.
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hey booomm

      What I said is something I don't take in concideration while playing. I'm just saying I heard this in a video a while ago.

      Positions = $$$$ for sure and I just said it wasn't an interesting point.

      I wasn't talking about closing the action though. If you're IP, vill checks to you and you bet vill can act behind you but he's not always closing the action.

      Again I'm not trying to prove anything here, just saying what I heared...

      Regards

      RasTweet