Are pot odds irrelevant in micro-stakes?

    • HellToupee
      HellToupee
      Basic
      Joined: 19.08.2013 Posts: 10
      Hello all,

      This question is a spin-off of one just asked, but it's a little different.

      It is something I've noticed since playing online in the micro-stakes and that is that I very rarely notice in micro-stakes (at least in NL.02/.04) the pott odds ever being better than my hand's odds. I'm not sure if this is because the bets in micro-stakes are usually all over the place, and the ratio of your call vs. the pot is rarely (if ever) better than 3:1?

      I'm using HE Indicator, or what use to be, as it's now part of Carbon's own "free odds calculator/HUD", which I'm sure doesn't make a difference, but out of about 5k+ hands now, I don't think I've ever once seen the pot odds show a positive situation thereby justifying certain calls/draws etc.

      Is this because of the nature of NL.02/.04? I just don't think I've ever seen pot odds of 4:1+ at these stakes...

      What am I missing?

      PS Wonderful website and community here fellas, I'm glad to be a part of it and wished I would've found you guys sooner...

      Jason
  • 10 replies
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Really? I remember seeing fish do stuff like bet 1 big blind into a 20bb pot all the time.

      And of course with draws at NL2 you have great implied odds vs regs who don't fold overpairs/top pair very well.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,029
      Originally posted by metza
      Really? I remember seeing fish do stuff like bet 1 big blind into a 20bb pot all the time.

      And of course with draws at NL2 you have great implied odds vs regs who don't fold overpairs/top pair very well.
      Oh, how I wish...
      I have pretty much given up on low PP, since when I hit my set/straight/flush, I very, very rarely get more than one street of value.

      --VS
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      Originally posted by metza
      Really? I remember seeing fish do stuff like bet 1 big blind into a 20bb pot all the time.

      And of course with draws at NL2 you have great implied odds vs regs who don't fold overpairs/top pair very well.
      Oh, how I wish...
      I have pretty much given up on low PP, since when I hit my set/straight/flush, I very, very rarely get more than one street of value.

      --VS
      You play on iPoker though right where everyone is mega nitty bots.

      If I remember correctly on Stars NL2, you hit a set/flush and your opponent has top pair:
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Hey Jason,

      First of all, a big welcome to the forum!

      There's a lot more to it than just the direct pot odds you are getting. There's also things such as implied odds (how much can you win on further streets?), action on further streets, the type of opponent you're facing, etc.

      For example, if you are in position with a flushdraw and aren't getting the right direct pot odds to call, you can almost always still make the call, because there's a number of things that can happen.

      1: You hit your flush and make the best hand and can get paid off.
      2: You don't hit your flush and your opponent gives up, meaning you can now take it down with a bet.

      Basically, you can hit your flush and there's nothing to worry about. Alternatively, if you don't hit your flush you might still be able to take it down on later streets.

      So there's a lot more to it than just getting the exact pot odds! You'll have the occasional fool who will min bet every street, but most players nowadays make larger bets than that :)

      Maybe it would be a good idea for you to take the NL Beginner's Course. That will help you get a good fundamental knowledge of the game, and will help your game in general tremendously: Beginner's Course

      Also, since you are from the US and therefore will not be able to play tracked unfortunately due to market regulations, I can happily inform you that it is still possible to achieve a higher status and unlock more of our content by buying a Points Package in our Points Shop: Points Shop

      Hopefully this has helped, and hopefully we'll see you around the forum more often! :)

      Kind regards,
      Tino
    • mkjmkjmkj
      mkjmkjmkj
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 159
      on the flop you can more or less always call your flushdraw even if you dont get direct odds
      on the turn it depends more on different factors.
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hey HellToupee

      Looks like TinoLaan said everything you need to know.

      It's a shame you aren't bronze or silver status. This article is about implied odds. Might be a good read to get a better understanding about all the odds. So once you get silver status you can read it.

      Regards

      RasTweet
    • HellToupee
      HellToupee
      Basic
      Joined: 19.08.2013 Posts: 10
      Thanks so much for all the responses.

      Tino - I really appreciate you taking your own time to not only make me feel welcome, but also to make such a sincere effort to help out a complete stranger.

      I think at this point, given the resources you guys offer, the price of upgrading my status would pay for itself, which I plan to do immediately.

      Ras - I do have a somewhat theoretical understanding of implied odds, however, as with many things I'm finding out, it's so much easier to read about these things and think you have a decent grasp on it, only to find out it's much harder to actually put that knowledge to work for you when you are actually playing -

      I just need to keep reminding myself 'baby steps', otherwise I can quickly become overwhelmed with all the inherent variables and end up forcing things and/or playing impatiently.

      Thanks again guys (and gals),

      Jason
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Originally posted by HellToupee
      Ras - I do have a somewhat theoretical understanding of implied odds, however, as with many things I'm finding out, it's so much easier to read about these things and think you have a decent grasp on it, only to find out it's much harder to actually put that knowledge to work for you when you are actually playing -

      I just need to keep reminding myself 'baby steps', otherwise I can quickly become overwhelmed with all the inherent variables and end up forcing things and/or playing impatiently.
      Very true and wise! Every beginner should read this imo!
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      You're very welcome Jason! Glad we could help :)
    • HellToupee
      HellToupee
      Basic
      Joined: 19.08.2013 Posts: 10
      Originally posted by RasTweet

      Very true and wise! Every beginner should read this imo!
      Confucius summed it up best: "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" - or something like that - thanks again for the warm welcome to all at PS...

      I wish I had something more to offer in return (unless you guys have any computer problems :)

      Jason