Could timings be used as a tell?

    • HellToupee
      HellToupee
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      Joined: 19.08.2013 Posts: 10
      Not sure if this is the proper forum for this, but here goes...

      Assuming that over time, people's patterns naturally start to emerge and given we can use these patterns to our advantage, I was wondering if maybe timing other player's decisions over many many hands we might be able to pick up on certain patterns?

      Don't know if this is just a really dumb idea or if there could be some potentials there? I'm not talking about a be all end all solution here, but maybe when combined with your usual tools, etc., it could help....?

      What do you guys think?
  • 18 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
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      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,923
      Moved to a more relevant board for you HellToupee.

      Yes, timings can be used as a tell but the more tables you play the more difficult it is to keep track. That is why it is always important to play less tables at the beginning and add some more as your experience grows :)
    • LendarTecho
      LendarTecho
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      Joined: 28.07.2013 Posts: 51
      Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.
    • inoimbluffingdou
      inoimbluffingdou
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      Joined: 09.06.2013 Posts: 42
      Seriously the guy has had a full round to decide what to do with his hand. By the time it is his turn he should know...
      If he takes too long, he is STILL deliberating?
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      In live yes, in online you never know if they are thinking hard, munching on chips or doing god knows what else so timing tells aren't very useful online.
    • SheepMoose
      SheepMoose
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      Joined: 15.01.2009 Posts: 854
      Originally posted by LendarTecho
      Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.
      I usually see it as the opposite.
      Quick snap-call = nothing of importance.
      Usually a person thinks whether they should be slow-playing or raising when they've got a strong hand, so it takes some slight hesitation.
    • circoflax
      circoflax
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      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      In my experience snapcall from fish = 1 pair or a FD where the player knows before you even bet: "yeah, I have this, so I'll call at least one bet." Beware of competent players who do this, especially if they had time to think before you put your bet in. It may be the nuts... :)
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
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      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,217
      Originally posted by SheepMoose
      Originally posted by LendarTecho
      Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.
      I usually see it as the opposite.
      Quick snap-call = nothing of importance.
      Usually a person thinks whether they should be slow-playing or raising when they've got a strong hand, so it takes some slight hesitation.
      Me too. I sometimes tank a little on the river OOP when I plan on check/folding to try and get players to check behind to see a free showdown.
    • jenoc
      jenoc
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      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 510
      One thing I have noticed on micros if a nitty reg raises PF, I call, flop comes something like 984 2suit and he superuberturbosnap checks most of the time he's just giving up and moving on.

      Snapcalls against Cbets many times turn out to be weak.
    • HellToupee
      HellToupee
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      Joined: 19.08.2013 Posts: 10
      Maybe I should've clarified - I was referring to taking the practice of noticing if a guy snap calls or deliberates for a long time, etc., and actually timing people with a digital stopwatch or something - surely this would probably be a lot of work ... I was just trying to explore the idea that these exact measurements over a significant amount of time might begin to reveal some predicatable patterns.

      Lets say you study one villian and find out that anytime he flat calls, he never takes longer than 6 seconds to act, or whenever he has a monster hand, 95% of the time he takes no fewer than 10 sec to act - stuff like that.

      I guess it would be too time comsuming since Hand Histories don't recognize this level of detail, and your calculations would have to be done manually, live, and, on an individual basis.

      Just brainstorming here, as I was trying to figure out ways that I could utilize the context density of online poker to give me the most info possible on opponents' play.

      cheers
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,908
      Originally posted by HellToupee
      Maybe I should've clarified - I was referring to taking the practice of noticing if a guy snap calls or deliberates for a long time, etc., and actually timing people with a digital stopwatch or something - surely this would probably be a lot of work ... I was just trying to explore the idea that these exact measurements over a significant amount of time might begin to reveal some predicatable patterns.
      Going into extreme precision is likely to cloud the issue.
      Is he always slow because his internet connection sucks most of the time?
      Is he aware of timing tells and always counts to 3 before clicking?
      How accurate can you be with a stopwatch, anyway?

      I'd suggest watching one or two players at your table -- say one on the right of you and one on the left.

      See if you can notice any pattern.

      Props to you if you actually have the perseverance to do this!

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • lkdr9494
      lkdr9494
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      Joined: 26.01.2012 Posts: 210
      Originally posted by metza
      In live yes, in online you never know if they are thinking hard, munching on chips or doing god knows what else so timing tells aren't very useful online.
      Totally agree, given someone can be multitabling, maybe doing something else while also playing poker online, there are too many factors to considerate timing a tell.
    • 7h3r1pp4
      7h3r1pp4
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      Joined: 21.12.2008 Posts: 816
      Originally posted by LendarTecho
      Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.
      I agree with that. Of course you cant take every move as a tell but the above is mostly right.

      If someone doing any action super fast it is always strong.
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 331
      At what sort of table? At what stakes? At what game?

      I grant you that, at the more serious end of the community, timing may indeed have the meaning which my books - and some of these posts - assure me it does, but, at OUR end???

      Guys, when I take a long time to make a move, it's because

      # there is action on my other tables;


      # I am pouring my coffee;

      # I am scrambling back from the bathroom;

      # my cat needs food;

      # somebody nice is getting her boobies out on the TV;

      # any two or more of the above.

      Soooo .... whatever .....

      And if it's a fast move it sometimes means I sneezed and misclicked ....
    • martinemem
      martinemem
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      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 596
      that really only tells us that u dont pay attention to the tables. So that is maybe also why u havent discovered the fact that timing tells CAN be used..
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 331
      Originally posted by martinemem
      that really only tells us that u dont pay attention to the tables. So that is maybe also why u havent discovered the fact that timing tells CAN be used..
      You wouldn't have said that if you saw what goes on at the tables I play at. They are even bigger noobs than moi, plus there is not much action at my SNG stakes on i-poker. Two tables + boobies works, or three tables without boobies.
    • thehagistig
      thehagistig
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      Joined: 18.09.2013 Posts: 13
      Timing tells per se are pretty useless nowadays imo. Sooo many people multi table it's hard to know if they used a lot of time or not.

      Me personally I use more time when I only got a couple of tables going, but then i'm also surfing the net, reading forums, gambling etc at the same time.

      If you see a particular player doing certain things the same probs worth making a note and see if it really is a tell, otherwise spend the time concentrating on bet sizing and what position peeps are playing from, far more useful info imo
    • Phenomenomzor
      Phenomenomzor
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      Joined: 29.09.2010 Posts: 152
      As many people has noted, timing tells are not that trustworthy when so many players multitable and even more players try to fake them. But when you are multitabling against another multitabling player, you can pick up quite many timing tells from him which can say something about his hand strength.
    • metza
      metza
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      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Phenomenomzor
      As many people has noted, timing tells are not that trustworthy when so many players multitable and even more players try to fake them. But when you are multitabling against another multitabling player, you can pick up quite many timing tells from him which can say something about his hand strength.
      Also when a multitabler snap folds to steals you can usually know that his range is static and he's not gonna be adjusting to steals.