BB vs SB open

    • ilares
      ilares
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 25.10.2009 Posts: 22,065
      Hi,
      everyone fold, vilain is a reg on SB and open, Hero is BB
      a lot of nl200+ regs open 30-50% (and some up to 90%) from SB and cbet a lot
      We have position so in theory we can exploit this, but how precisely?

      How much % of your range you are defending?

      I was defending somtehing like 40%, but i saw that the bottom of my range has an ev break even, so far > -100bb/100 (when we fold)

      So now i defend like 61%, 40% call and 20% 3b (with ~33% 5b range so he cant 4b any two cards)

      Too loose? Correct?


      + How do u play vs cbet? Do we raise hso cbet with some air or only gutshots/backdoors fd and our nuts?

      Thank you ;)
  • 6 replies
    • mafrendd
      mafrendd
      Basic
      Joined: 28.04.2013 Posts: 11
      Interesting topic :)

      33% 5bet (allin) range out of our 3bet range seems like to tight. I would suggest for a 3:1 ratio instead of 2:1. That means 25% 5bet range. In that case your opponent will start thinking to steal you less frequently because we are 3betting him a lot where he needs to fold to play oop postflop.

      It was about preflop game.

      Now post flop strategy. I would like to not play any AA, KK preflop slow. So on the flop cold calling range we dont have any AA, KK. In that case we need to fight against his 30-50% stealing range [ref: a lot of nl200+ regs open 30-50%] with our 40% defending range. I believe it should be around 35% overall. But of course we should be defending much more vs high stealers.

      I would like to discuss playing vs high stealrs. Lets say we defended vs a high stealer who steals around 60%. And he cbets on tons of flops. In that case you need to understand flop texture very well. Suppose on a board like Ks8d3h _ a 60% range would miss the flop completely a lot of times where he will not even have any outers to improve his hand to a top pair. So if we raise with nothing in our hand, a large portion of his range will just have nothing to do but fold. I believe we will see such kinda flop 10% of the times. Now out of the rest 90% flops we should be floating 50% of the times where our desired board texture should be wet like Tc7s8s or QdJd9h _ on this type of boards he will not try to barrel on the turn i believe. So he will xf on turn. Otherwise if he fights on that type of board he will lose a lot of money because when we will catch our outers he is gonna fight and pay us.

      A great portion of other 50% flops remains with Axx. I belive we should not fight in this type of board if we dont have something in our hand. Because a large part of his range is any Ax.

      So now, on any type of flop we have a strategy and he will have trouble in each cases playing against us.

      Now all you need to do is to balance the flop bluff raise, value raise, slow plays, and floating range _ depending on the table dynamics and your player image to your opponent. ;)
    • lnternet
      lnternet
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      If you don't know the SB I would default call 50%, 3bet 20% vs a 3bb steal.
      If you know the SB's open %, I would call about that same percentage and 3bet something around 40% of that percentage.
      If you know the SB's fold to 3bet, or cbet, etc, you can play some bigger adjustments.

      Those aren't perfect ranges but very easy numbers and should get you very close to good play.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by lnternet
      If you don't know the SB I would default call 50%, 3bet 20% vs a 3bb steal.
      If you know the SB's open %, I would call about that same percentage and 3bet something around 40% of that percentage.
      If you know the SB's fold to 3bet, or cbet, etc, you can play some bigger adjustments.

      Those aren't perfect ranges but very easy numbers and should get you very close to good play.
      How would you play against guy with 100% RFI in SB?
    • lnternet
      lnternet
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      Originally posted by metza
      How would you play against guy with 100% RFI in SB?
      To what size? Up to 2.5bb I would 3bet around 30% and call the rest. At 3bb fold the bottom 10%, then still 3bet 30% and call the rest. If he goes more than 3bb fold a bit more.
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      Originally posted by lnternet
      If you know the SB's open %, [...] 3bet something around 40% of that percentage.
      Where did that 40% come from?
    • mkjmkjmkj
      mkjmkjmkj
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 159
      this is more a general question about steals also button steals

      whe we call a minsteal in the BB we are getting very good odds so potentially we can check fold alot without the call preflop is being a mistake. we only have to win the pot 22% of the time.
      but when i call how much am i relying on to just hit a made hand or a good draw?
      of cause it depends on the opponent and the actual hand we are caling with but lets say sort of average oppenent i dont know if the qustion would be better if made up some stats to discuss from.

      just to put some hands in to categories

      of suit broadway hands.

      low to middle suited coonnecters

      low pocket pairs

      Kxs, Qxs Jxs with low to middle kicker

      fx can we call ofsuit broadways preflop mostly trying to hit toppair and get some bets out of second pair or toppair worse kicker? and then give op on a decent amount of flops without the preflop call being a mistake. Asuming its not totally obvius what we do to the opponent?

      im mostly asking for some sort of baseline for my postflop plan when i call preflop with good odds.

      what about the other categories of hands