Learning PLO from scratch ! Starting with PLO2.

Good luck! It's a great game. Hard to master, but very fun. Plus, ABC-style play is enough to turn a profit at the lowest stakes for sure.

Hey SleepyDog,

Great to see you've started a blog like you mentioned in your introduction!

Though I'm not a PLO player myself, I'll pop my head in here every now and then to see how you're progressing. Plus I might find some interesting things for the rare few cases I play PLO

Good luck!

Kind regards,
Tino

Seems like PLO is getting really popular for beginners recently. It's great to see blogs like this.

All the best OP

Okay, I just ended my first session and I'll review it now. I'm new to reviewing sessions so I'm not sure how to do it properly. I found a few articles/post on forums that should give me some ideas but I would welcome feedback on how YOU do it.

First impressions :

• I played only 30 minutes without a HUD . I just felt sooo naked. And trying to pay attention to everyone playing 4 tables, wow, I'm just not used to it. I guess I'll have to play just one or two tables from time to time if I wanna play without it but when 4-tabling I'm keeping it.
  
• As expected players are really bad, all of my tables where above 50vpip and under 15 or even 10 pfr.
  
• On turbopoker.fr tables are deep. I had a 4€ stack with blinds of 0.01/0.02c. The problem is that there is a LOT of short stacks and I'm not sure how to play against them. More on that later with some hand exemples.
  

Ok, first off, I played a little over two and a half hours and got dealt 476 hands. I played half the time on 3 tables and the over half on 4, which is fine. There might not be many french PLO players but 3 to 4 tables is enough for me.

Let's see some numbers !! I played 19/11/2.45 (vpip/pfr/agg factor). A bit nitty but that's what I wanted. I like these stats.

Overall I lost 2€, but when I check €EV Diff I see I'm a little over 4€ positive so that means I ran a little cold doesn't it ? Anyway we'll talk about winnings when I reach 40 000 hands .

Flop cbet : 67%, that's high for PLO isn't it ? It was a success 52% so I guess it was profitable (I usually cbet 50 to 75% of pot). I'll check hands I cbetted to see if the board/number of players really warranted a cbet.
Ok : I think I should Cbet only when there's 2 or less oponents in the hand. I tried with 3 and only had a 33% success rate. Otherwise I don't see anything that jumps out as bad play.

I WTSD 24% which I think is fine but I only won 27% of the time ! I need to keep on eye on that next session. Again I think I ran a little cold, that's probably why but still, that's really low.

Let's talk about short stacks now ! Here is an exemple of what I mean :

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players

Hero (SB): $5.13 (256.5 bb)
BB: $3.07 (153.5 bb)
UTG: $1 (50 bb)
MP: $6.25 (312.5 bb)
CO: $1 (50 bb)
BTN: $4.23 (211.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K 6 K 9
UTG posts BB OOP, UTG checks, MP calls $0.02, CO folds, BTN calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.13, BB folds, UTG calls $0.11, MP folds, BTN calls $0.11

Flop: ($0.44) Q 7 3 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.22, UTG raises to $0.87 and is all-in, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.18) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($2.18) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)

I really have no clue, did I play that well ? A 40/2/1.2 that shoves surely means he has a strong hand, two pair at least, doesn't it ? I probably should have folded my overpair. Actually I felt compelled to call because of his stack size, knowing that I would not face another bet after this one I just couldn't resist. It's not right, right ?

An other hand that troubled me was :

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players

SB: $4.07 (203.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $4.39 (219.5 bb)
MP: $2.05 (102.5 bb)
CO: $1.80 (90 bb)
BTN: $1.83 (91.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 5 J J
MP folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.07) J K 8 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.07, CO calls $0.07, BTN folds

Turn: ($0.21) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.14, CO calls $0.14

River: ($0.49) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.49, CO raises to $0.98, Hero raises to $3.43, CO calls $0.59

I didn't have a read on the player at the time except he was loose passive. I was ready to give up on the river when the board paired giving me a boat. Standard 4-bet shove here ? Standard call more likely. Yeah I think it makes more sense to call now that I'm away from the table.

Well, it's 11pm and I'm tired so I'll call it a day. I feel like I didn't review my session deeply, I'll try and do better job tomorrow. Let's recap :

• Cbet only when there's 2 or less oponents in the hand.
  
• Fold your overpair when facing too much action.
  
• Don't 4bet-shove with anything but the nuts.
  

Ok, I've learned quite a bit by watching a video this afternoon and I'm gonna set some goals to keep in mind while playing tonight.

First, my conclusions from yesterday's session :

• Cbet only when there's 2 or less oponents in the hand.
  
• Fold your overpair when facing too much action.
  
• Don't 4bet-shove with anything but the nuts.

Second here are some ideas to experiment with :

• Pre-flop : avoid low versions of pair-type of hands. (The idea is to play hands that make strong hands/draws, I already do that but until now I didn't really apply this principle to low sets, don't ask me why.)
  
• Tend to raise with strong hands with smooth equity distributions and just call with hands that have polarized equity distribution. (The idea is that I don't mind any kind of action with strong smooth equity hands but I'd rather see a cheap multi-way pot with AA** or KK** type of hands.)
  
• Keep in mind that cumulative equity (redraws, backdoor draws and such) adds little by little what amounts to a significant equity boost ==> If I have lots of weak outs in position see a free turn card that will help define my hand.
  
• Control the pot by checking/calling when I have less than 10/12 outs.

I won't review my session tonight, but just a few remarks :

• Result-wise it didn't go well, I lost 6€. €EV diff positive again, +2€, would still have lost 4€ if luck was neutral... Played 364 hands over a period of 2 hours.
  
• Decision-wise it went really well, I think I didn't make too many mistakes (to be confirmed when I review it) and I really paid attention to the tables, took lots of notes and used them in other pots.
  
• I think I didn't play enough hands on the BTN and CO, plus I didn't fight for uncontested pots until the last 30 minutes of my session. I noticed most of my opponents don't call as much as I thought. I should think about being more aggressive when checked to.
  

[*]Tend to raise with strong hands with smooth equity distributions and just call with hands that have polarized equity distribution. (The idea is that I don't mind any kind of action with strong smooth equity hands but I'd rather see a cheap multi-way pot with AA** or KK** type of hands.)

I think this is pretty situational, even at a beginner's level.

It's definitely best to just call with weak AA/KK (no suit, bad connectivity) in most spots, if you're not opening the pot.

However, otherwise isolating one player is (I think) the best route. Position is vital here, and the action before you. If it's a limp pot, I think it's a 100% raise since you need to build a pot and punish passive players here from any position. Most of the limpers will probably call, so it's a spot where you continue to build the pot only if you flop a big hand.

If you are in position in a raised pot with good AA/KK and you are sure that a 3bet will often isolate one player, maaaaybe two, you should 3bet confidently. If you think the table is loose and you will definitely get at least 3 callers even with a big raise, you can call or 3bet with the intent of giving up if you don't flop a big hand (but with a very high chance to win a big pot if you do hit your hand). The difference here is that if you have one caller, you should cbet most flops, vs two callers only safe flops (like 229 with two cards of one suit - definitely still a cbet vs two callers), and vs 3 or more only the flops that you hit hard.

If you are out of position and don't want to be in a marginal spot you should 3bet good AA/KK hands only if you are absolutely 100% sure that you are playing vs conservative players and will very rarely get more than 1 caller. You should still cbet a lot vs one caller out of position, but here it's easier for a good player in position to exploit you if he knows you will often fold your AA/KK-type hand to a raise.

So my basic point is: I think this is the much better way to build a pot with AAxx and maybe KKxx (personally I play KKxx a LOT more conservatively than AAxx) rather than to try and flop a set in a small multiway pot and try to force it into a bigger pot. You can do that with TT-QQ, but AAxx is way too playable to just always passively set mine. And the postflop play with it is straightforward enough for a beginning conservative player. But this is just the thoughts of a 2/5c gambler who plays by feel, so don't take my word for it, just giving food for thought.

Thanks for taking the time !

I will definitely follow your advice. I think I played way too passively yesterday. I wasn't thinking about building pots, just about hitting the flop hard, but as you said, if the pot is small it's pretty useless to try and force a bigger pot.

I'll take time to review my session properly this afternoon though and see what I actually did in those spots.

Wow thanks ! I started reading it and I'm definitely gonna read all of it soon, it's gold man !

Ok, here we go for the second session review.

First lets see some numbers :

• I played 16.5/8/1.85 which as expected is more passive than my previous session. I need to correct that by raising a lot more in limped pots. (In position of course)
  
• Position-wise I did play more from the CO/BTN but not by much, exactly what I thought. Need to open a lot more in position.
  
• From the blinds I only raised with good AA and KK, I limped with a bad KK and other marginal hands, probably need to skip those.
  

I don't see anything else that's relevant so let's check hands now.

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players


SB: $8.54 (427 bb)
Hero (BB): $5 (250 bb)
UTG: $2.17 (108.5 bb)
MP: $1.51 (75.5 bb)
CO: $0.70 (35 bb)
BTN: $2.76 (138 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K J T K
UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.14, UTG calls $0.12, MP calls $0.12, CO calls $0.12, BTN calls $0.12, SB folds

Flop: ($0.72) 5 T 7 (5 players)
Hero bets $0.44, UTG folds, MP calls $0.44, CO folds, BTN calls $0.44

Turn: ($2.04) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets $1.02, MP calls $0.93 and is all-in, BTN folds

River: ($3.90) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

I'm a bit lost with this hand. Over 250 hands villain is a 88/1/1.1 and I noticed he's a real calling station (chases baby flushes, calling big bets with single middle pair, chasing naked gutshots...) so I guess my line is correct ?

When I sort hands by "Net won" I noticed most of my hands are AA and KK that I raised and gave up either on the flop or turn. That's a lot of 20 to 40c pots. I don't know what to make of it. Does it even mean anything ?

I also notice my biggest wins range from 40 up to 86c, that might explain why it was a loosing session. I didn't manage to build big pots with my strong hands. Raise pre-flop !!

All in all I didn't follow that advice :

Tend to raise with strong hands with smooth equity distributions and just call with hands that have polarized equity distribution.

I think I actually did the opposite. Anyway that goal was crap but I shouldn't do the opposite either. I really need to raise with all those strong hands, smooth AND polarized.

I'm gonna call it a session review because those are really big mistakes and I need to focus on correcting them. Let's recap :

• Tight from the blinds.
  
• Looser from CO and BTN.
  
• Raise a lot more limpers to build big pots.
  

That's really basic stuff, I don't know what I tried to do yesterday...

OMG !! I ran hotter than the sun !!

Only 2 tables available at PLO2 this afternoon so I added one table of PLO4 to play on 3 with the same BI overall. Does it make sense ?

Anyway I ended the session with a little over 25€ gain. Got to say : I got lucky on two large pots, one of them really huge. Of course it doesn't mean squat regarding how well I played but I'm still super duper happy .

Overall I think I played really well though (thanks to you guys )

I played 16/11/2.6 which is way more aggro than last time. I didn't 3bet one single time but I don't think I had the opportunity.

My WTSD% is still at 25% but this time I won 44% of them.

I Cbet 64% but it was a success only 31% of the time... 60% success vs 1 and 30% vs 2. I might need to be more selective. Of course it's a small sample but I should keep it in mind.

Regarding position I did well, played very little from the blinds and gradually more from UTG to BTN. Perfect !

Lets review some hands.

IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players

MP: $6.86 (171.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $11.64 (291 bb)
BTN: $5.67 (141.8 bb)
SB: $12.20 (305 bb)
BB: $3.23 (80.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J A J Q
MP calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.18, BTN calls $0.18, SB folds, BB calls $0.14, MP calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.74) 4 A 7 (4 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.51, 2 folds, MP calls $0.51

Turn: ($1.76) K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.23, MP calls $1.23

River: ($4.22) Q (2 players)
MP bets $2.95, Hero folds

Villain is unknown, I only have 8 hands on him. I think the turn bet might be overaggressive. I don't know what to think. Basically I only have a pair of AA, what I wanted was for him to fold, but I could have had some showdown value. Just a check and see what happens on the river ? Or make him pay to draw like I did but without much of a hand myself ? Deep as we were just checking would have been better I think. Would love some feedback on this !

Ok, on this one I'm actually ashamed to show it to you, I played it like a maniac.

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players


CO: $1.28 (64 bb)
BTN: $4.35 (217.5 bb)
SB: $1 (50 bb)
BB: $1.22 (61 bb)
Hero (UTG): $6.87 (343.5 bb)
MP: $3.04 (152 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8 9 T J
Hero raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, CO calls $0.07, BTN raises to $0.38, SB calls $0.37, BB folds, Hero calls $0.31, MP calls $0.31, CO calls $0.31

Flop: ($1.92) T 5 6 (5 players)
SB bets $0.62 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.62, MP folds, CO raises to $0.90 and is all-in, BTN calls $0.90, Hero calls $0.28

Turn: ($5.24) Q (4 players, 2 are all-in)
Hero bets $5.24, BTN folds

River: ($5.24) 8 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

I did that 2 or 3 times... Winning big pots got to my thinking, that's the only reason I see. It's like winning too much put me on tilt . Definitely need to control myself better, it could have catastrophic.

Ok that's it for now. I think the big lesson this time would be to be careful with aggression. I can't let myself be carried away. This happened around the end of my session so it might be better to quit earlier when I either win big or loose big.

Originally posted by SleepyDog
MP: $6.86 (171.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $11.64 (291 bb)
BTN: $5.67 (141.8 bb)
SB: $12.20 (305 bb)
BB: $3.23 (80.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J A J Q
MP calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.18, BTN calls $0.18, SB folds, BB calls $0.14, MP calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.74) 4 A 7 (4 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.51, 2 folds, MP calls $0.51

Turn: ($1.76) K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.23, MP calls $1.23

River: ($4.22) Q (2 players)
MP bets $2.95, Hero folds

Villain is unknown, I only have 8 hands on him. I think the turn bet might be overaggressive. I don't know what to think. Basically I only have a pair of AA, what I wanted was for him to fold, but I could have had some showdown value. Just a check and see what happens on the river ? Or make him pay to draw like I did but without much of a hand myself ? Deep as we were just checking would have been better I think. Would love some feedback on this !

I'd actually check the flop here. You have just a pair of aces with only 5 definite outs to improve your hand, there's straight and flush draws possible for three players, and you really hate most turns (2, 3, 5, 6, 8 can make a straight, any club a flush - altogether that's 26 cards to shut you down). A lot of better hands will also just call all the way, so it's a very marginal spot where it's hard to know where you're at.

What makes this spot so bad is you can't squeeze much value out of it since you don't have and are not very likely to make a strong hand, but you can often be bluffed, easily outdrawn or already beat with 3 other players on this board.

The second hand you posted is actually fine in my view, I do stuff like that all the time. One thing you have to note with a hand like 89TJ in a multiway pot is that it's a little dangerous because it makes a lot of straights with broadway cards, and people tend to play connected broadway cards, so they may often dominate your straight draws (so I'd prefer to have a hand like 5678 there). It wouldn't stop me personally from gambling with that hand though.

Duly noted ! It makes a lot of sense.

It's weird how I didn't even pay attention to the flop play and now that you talk about it I totally see your point. That makes me think that creating this blog and posting hands in general is absolutely mandatory to progress.

Just a quick post before I go to bed. I just finished second of the welcome pokerstrategy private tournament on turbopoker.fr and cashed 37.60€. Nice boost to my bankroll that is at 98.21€ without adding the last 25€ pokerstrategy will give me when I activate my account. Happy happy

Hi guys !
I was sick the last two days so I haven't played or studied much. I tried but I wasn't focused so I just quit.

I couldn't focus but my mind wondered and I thought about poker a lot. All in all I'm really confused about what to do. I think I don't like cash games that much and I'm a bit overwhelmed by the complexity of PLO. Should I try and really learn MTTs instead of PLO ? I don't know. I'll do a pro/con thing to set my ideas straight.

Pros of MTTs:

• I like it more than cash games. I think it's more fun because you always change your strategy depending on the blind levels.
  
• It's really exciting when you get close to the bubble and further.
  
• I go on tilt a lot less in MTTS than in cash games. I'm not sure why.
  

Cons of MTTs:

• It takes a lot of time, you can't just play an hour or two, you play till the end.
  
• Luck is more important than in cash games. Skill isn't always king.
  
• You don't win consistently, you keep loosing and loosing until you win big, then you start loosing again, etc.
  

Pros of Omaha :

• The games are soft.
  
• You get better hands than in NLHE.
  

Cons of Omaha :

• On french sites there is just too few players. At most there is four tables on the evenings, and mostly one or two during the day.
  
• Not specific to PLO but to all cash games : I get bored after a while...
  
• I haven't experienced it yet but I read variance is a b*** in omaha.
  
• It's a hard game to learn.
  

I have to say it : this is not because I won a nice tournament on sunday. I've been playing MTTs for a while and I know for every one you win you lose 20 or more. I've been unsure of what to learn for as long as I started playing poker. Until now I've tried NLHE 6 max cash-games, PLO 6 max cash games, HU NLHE cash games, SNG 6 and 9 max and MTTs.

Yeah, I think it's clear... Sorry guys, I'm quitting PLO and I'm gonna focus exclusively on MTTs. I feel a bit bad about giving up but I think it's for the best. Hope I don't disappoint you.

Ironically I stumbled upon your blog and I can tell that I had momentary spurs into the land of PLOvariance'ia and I can tell that it is bitchy (losing 7 BI over an hour and winning 10 back is semi-standard). I lost A LOT of money in omaha, mainly cause I sucked and played fit/fold for most of my days, but I transitioned into MTTs and got rather profitable. The plus side of MTTs is that smaller sites cater more tourneys that are soft than the big sites. Which means that, while on the off side you win less money when you bink a tourney, you can grind them and win several of them within hours of each other. Judging from your bankroll, I can tell it is not a safe practice, albeit I support you wholeheartedly There will be a time for everything.

RAAaaaaahhh I'm just not sure !! I don't know what to do. I really liked playing PLO so far. I think I'll give it another shot...

Ok, I wanted to try my hand at PLO2 again and I lost 3 BI in like 20 minutes, (deep tables on turbopoker.fr or 3 * 5 = 15€...).

I'm a bit shaken so I stopped playing.