Out of The "Norm" Lines to Take Against Steals

    • Superbrain
      Superbrain
      Basic
      Joined: 29.06.2013 Posts: 167
      From Poker by the Book: Polished Poker – Volume I v1.2 By: John Anhalt

      {Quote}//When you are facing really good opponents, you shouldn't look to just concede the pot. However you want to temper this with making sure you are putting yourself in the best possible situations as much as you can. There are some lines you can take against aggressive opponents who are opening fairly wide from the cut-off or button.

      1. Stop and Go: Check and call a lot of flops where you have gut shots, back door outs, and then lead the turn. A majority of opponents will have difficulty adjusting to this line, and when executed properly will give up on a lot of pots. Mass multi-tabling regulars will look to move on to the next hand, except for the very few really good opponents.

      2. Donk Lead: Against a decent amount of opponents this is all you'll have to do to
      take down the pot. You just want to look to do a donk lead in situations where you have maybe an overcard or two, almost no back door equity. Use hands that have very little equity to improve, and there are a reasonable range of better hands that you can get your opponent to fold out.

      3. Lead Small Over Bet: This works well on paired boards, or hands where you have a lot of backdoor outs. You get your opponent to define their hand a little more, and then make them make a difficult turn decision by slightly over betting the turn. Most people don't have to deal with overbets often, so unless they have a big hand, usually opponents will give up.

      4. Check Min-Raise Lead: A slightly more risky line, but one that works well against a fairly wide range of opponents, except absolute fish who can't fold hands. A decent percentage of opponents won't fold to min-raises, but when they do it's a cheap way to re-steal. When they do call, you have setup your hand to look like a monster, so you can fire a reasonably sized turn bet of 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the pot and expect to get folds from a lot of your opponent’s range on most board textures.//{End Quote}


      I play micro NL FR @ PokerStars and can share my experience that line 1 above works well against most opponents from late positions. It is a kind of semi bluff, so you may win by getting your opponents to fold or by improving to the best hand.

      With regard to other lines, I have yet to incorporate them into my game. Will anyone be so kind to share their experience?
  • 7 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,921
      Moved to the relevant board :)
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      Hey Superbrain

      1. Seems interesting, I do it occasionally and seems like quite a nice line in moderation.

      2. I don't like how he says to do it with very little equity to improve - from my experience people either a)fold, or b)call and fold the turn to a 2nd barrel - if they don't fold then they are obv calling you down with a hand. imo this line is best with at least backdoor equity so we can barrel on favourable turns.

      3. Don't really have any experience about donk-overbetting the turn...

      4. "...you can set up your hand to look like a monster..." by minraising, just after he established that people don't often fold to minraises? The reason why minraises often don't look like monsters (without more information) is because they don't threaten your whole stack, so I don't see how they can suddenly look like a monster if you decide to lead the turn. Just imo ofc :) The only people I've seen taking this line are fish who are just clicking buttons. When they are bluffing they pretty much never continue by leading the turn, when they have the nuts they lead the turn and probably kick themselves for not setting up a river jam properly.

      I think I have this book and I started reading it but for some reason put it down. I remember what I read was quite solid so maybe I should finish it.

      The key to all of these lines imo is to come up with a general idea for when you want to be taking them, and then the second you make these plays you take a note about the outcome. If you donked on a dry flop and the guy folded then take a note and by all means donk with air, but if he calls you should take a note and change your range.
    • unshpe
      unshpe
      Basic
      Joined: 20.05.2013 Posts: 294
      I have a system for this (Just my experience)

      For calls preflop:

      1) AA with the A :diamond: , any other AA combo I 3bet.
      2) 9 :club: 6 :diamond: , any other 96 combo I fold.
      3) Suited broadways , only if they are :diamond: . Unsuited if they contain a :heart: .

      For postflop after calling pre:

      I donkbet 50% pot if there is 9 :club: on the flop.
      I donkbet 75% pot if there is 9 :club: and 6 :club: on the flop.
      I donkbet 2 times pot if there is the A :spade: on the flop.

      I check/raise to 2.66 x pot if opponent has an avatar with anime.
      I check/shove if opponent has an avatar with anime AND I have the 6 :diamond: in my hand

      For 3bets preflop:

      1) Any two that are not in the preflop calling range.

      For Postflop after 3betting pre:

      I Cbet 48% pot if the flop is 2 tone with :heart: and :diamond:
      I Cbet 59% pot if the flop has A :heart: A :diamond: and a small card.
      I Cbet full pot if the flop monotone of the :spade: suit
      I Check/Fold if the flop is rainbow.

      So far my winrate is not what i expected it ( currently negative ) , but I am sure things will turn around.

      GL @ the tables !
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 331
      Originally posted by unshpe
      I have a system for this (Just my experience)

      For calls preflop:

      1) AA with the A :diamond: , any other AA combo I 3bet.
      2) 9 :club: 6 :diamond: , any other 96 combo I fold.
      3) Suited broadways , only if they are :diamond: . Unsuited if they contain a :heart: .

      For postflop after calling pre:

      I donkbet 50% pot if there is 9 :club: on the flop.
      I donkbet 75% pot if there is 9 :club: and 6 :club: on the flop.
      I donkbet 2 times pot if there is the A :spade: on the flop.

      I check/raise to 2.66 x pot if opponent has an avatar with anime.
      I check/shove if opponent has an avatar with anime AND I have the 6 :diamond: in my hand

      For 3bets preflop:

      1) Any two that are not in the preflop calling range.

      For Postflop after 3betting pre:

      I Cbet 48% pot if the flop is 2 tone with :heart: and :diamond:
      I Cbet 59% pot if the flop has A :heart: A :diamond: and a small card.
      I Cbet full pot if the flop monotone of the :spade: suit
      I Check/Fold if the flop is rainbow.

      So far my winrate is not what i expected it ( currently negative ) , but I am sure things will turn around.

      GL @ the tables !

      This guy is total hero, he should be coach, cheese sandwich etc. unsshpe, you teach us all!!!!
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      I could never remember which ones to do which with.

      I'm back to NL 2 anyway, so it really doesn't matter much.

      When I was splitting, I always did the split on the same two suits.

      So:
      3Bet AA except call w/ A:cA
      etc
      I would also split AQo 3Bet / fold if Qs 3Bet/Shove w/ As and call otherwise
      Note that this is only to make a decision if I could not tell from villain's tendencies what to do.

      I would occasionally just flat AK too, but it had nothing to do w/ suits, only if I figured villain was aggro enough, I was in position. Problem with that move is that you get sucked out on more than normal (or so it seemed).

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      Originally posted by unshpe
      I have a system for this (Just my experience)

      For calls preflop:

      1) AA with the A :diamond: , any other AA combo I 3bet.
      2) 9 :club: 6 :diamond: , any other 96 combo I fold.
      3) Suited broadways , only if they are :diamond: . Unsuited if they contain a :heart: .

      For postflop after calling pre:

      I donkbet 50% pot if there is 9 :club: on the flop.
      I donkbet 75% pot if there is 9 :club: and 6 :club: on the flop.
      I donkbet 2 times pot if there is the A :spade: on the flop.

      I check/raise to 2.66 x pot if opponent has an avatar with anime.
      I check/shove if opponent has an avatar with anime AND I have the 6 :diamond: in my hand

      For 3bets preflop:

      1) Any two that are not in the preflop calling range.

      For Postflop after 3betting pre:

      I Cbet 48% pot if the flop is 2 tone with :heart: and :diamond:
      I Cbet 59% pot if the flop has A :heart: A :diamond: and a small card.
      I Cbet full pot if the flop monotone of the :spade: suit
      I Check/Fold if the flop is rainbow.

      So far my winrate is not what i expected it ( currently negative ) , but I am sure things will turn around.

      GL @ the tables !
      such good balancing, definitely an example for everyone!
      the thing with anime avatars is spot on - anime avatar is ALWAYS a reg, and regs like folding, so it works evrytiem!

      disclaimer just in case: our posts are not serious
    • unshpe
      unshpe
      Basic
      Joined: 20.05.2013 Posts: 294
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      When I was splitting, I always did the split on the same two suits.

      So:
      3Bet AA except call w/ A:cA
      etc
      I would also split AQo 3Bet / fold if Qs 3Bet/Shove w/ As and call otherwise
      That's just making up rules.