Street Adjusted EV for PT5?

    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Is it possible to also have a feature where EV is worked out in relation to $ put in on each street when the hand does go to showdown?

      I realize there are also limitations to this as well as with All In EV, but it would still be useful as a feature IMO
  • 6 replies
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 679
      Originally posted by metza
      Is it possible to also have a feature where EV is worked out in relation to $ put in on each street when the hand does go to showdown?

      I realize there are also limitations to this as well as with All In EV, but it would still be useful as a feature IMO
      First - We no longer use the name "All-In EV" because that name is technically incorrect because it is not a measurement of EV. Please use the term All-In Equity Adjusted Winnings instead.

      Second - Just to make sure we are on the same page, All-In Equity Adjusted Winnings (and the improperly names All-In EV as well) and not measurements of luck. These stats are measurements of expectation... this is a complicated concept that is VERY commonly misunderstood, but we try hard to educate our users on the differences between luck and expectation. PokerTracker measures luck only in the Luck Bell Curve, we can measure luck in comparison to draws only.

      If you can explain how this would help your game, and your reasoning is logical, then its something we could consider. We have heard this request before, but so far nobody has given logical reasons how it could help their game... the players that have requested it have incorrectly viewed All-In Equity as luck measurement, but when you understand that this stat is just a measurement of expectation then then its harder to come up with a reason for a street by street equity adjusted winnings stat... I cannot think of a reason it would be helpful.... but if you can show us, and it would make sense mathematically in the eyes of a statistician, then we are very open minded to this!
    • PerusJamppa
      PerusJamppa
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 2,714
      Originally posted by metza
      Is it possible to also have a feature where EV is worked out in relation to $ put in on each street when the hand does go to showdown?
      In theory that would be a really good feature, but the porblems occur when we start bluffing. :tongue:
      When we do bluff, we usually put money in the pot with poor (or even zero) equity.
      If our bluff doesn't work and we end up in showdown, the EV (or whatever we want to call it) -line tells us that we've been playing "badly" in ev point of view. The EV (or whatever we want to call it) -line is absolutely unaware about the times when our bluffs do work.
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 679
      Originally posted by PerusJamppa
      Originally posted by metza
      Is it possible to also have a feature where EV is worked out in relation to $ put in on each street when the hand does go to showdown?
      In theory that would be a really good feature, but the porblems occur when we start bluffing. :tongue:
      When we do bluff, we usually put money in the pot with poor (or even zero) equity.
      If our bluff doesn't work and we end up in showdown, the EV (or whatever we want to call it) -line tells us that we've been playing "badly" in ev point of view. The EV (or whatever we want to call it) -line is absolutely unaware about the times when our bluffs do work.
      That is correct, this is one of the many issues we saw when considering this idea. There are many others as well, such as the frequency of multi-way pots which cannot be calculated unless all players who have equity in the pot see showdown and their mucked cards are recorded in the hand history (this is not always the case) .
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Hi PokerTracker, thanks for your response.

      I think such a feature could be used to identify which streets the user is more prone to making mistakes. While bluffing and getting called down is a problem, it could definitely be still useful when filtered to hands where hero just called. That alone would make it more useful than All In Equity Adjusted Winnings which isn't really of much use.
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 679
      Originally posted by metza
      Hi PokerTracker, thanks for your response.

      I think such a feature could be used to identify which streets the user is more prone to making mistakes. While bluffing and getting called down is a problem, it could definitely be still useful when filtered to hands where hero just called. That alone would make it more useful than All In Equity Adjusted Winnings which isn't really of much use.
      Respectfully, your answer tells us that you might not fully understand the difference between luck and expectation. This is a complicated topic, and you would not be alone in this misunderstanding. What you appear to be looking for is real EV, which a tracking tool does not (and cannot) provide. EV requires a prediction of an opponent's range, which a tracker cannot provide. We suggest you explore a different type of tool for this functionality, CardRunners EV is a very good street by street decision tree for EV analysis or you could always use a spreadsheet + PT4's equity calculator to estimate your opponent's ranges to accomplish the same job.
    • Lacas84
      Lacas84
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.04.2011 Posts: 62
      Hi All,

      I usually dont focus on stats like my c net adjusted or ROI% adjusted but i feel like im running really bad so i took a look.
      My question is how accurate are these stats on Fifty50 sng-s and what they really mean.
      For example this month i played 704 $7 Fifty50 sng-s so far. My results are -35 dollars and my roi is -0.73%. But my c net adjusted shows $1493 winnings and my roi Adjusted is 30.30%. So does this mean that the way i played i should have 1493 dollars and my roi should be 30.30% but due to variance or luck i dont?