The new SNG regime - more work needed!

    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 331
      This is a re-post of an item that I posted in the SNG forums. I am also going to run it on Mr Moshman's personal thread.
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Just when I thought I knew absolutely everything about SNGs [ :D ], I find we are required to learn even more!

      I have been dipping into the new series of lessons. It appears to me that, at numerous points, we are being moved away from the traditional doctrines taught 5 years back or so on PS. Am I correct? Should we take these items as just alternative ideas, or as replacements for the traditional doctrines?

      I note also that, at various points, there are attempts to distinguish between the various types of SNG. I respectfully suggest that these attempts do not go far enough. The gradations between 6-man, 9 & 10 man, multiplayer and, finally, 180-man tournaments are [IMHO] vast. Those differences need to be more clearly defined with clearer teachings on the relevant adjustments.

      I suggest the community would appreciate it if these fascinating articles were to be treated, not as completed items, but rather as "work-in-progress".

      How about developing a complete, internally coherent, strategy book for playing all types of SNGs? The 'book' could have sections restricted to silver, gold, etc.

      And I do mean a 'book' rather than a series of articles. PS could readily develop a single PDF e-book, [with silver and gold chapters, etc.] and put up a link to it.

      What does everybody think?

      __________________
  • 3 replies
    • gaaish
      gaaish
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2010 Posts: 1,258
      Hey Glopslart, many thanks for your interesting post!

      First of all apologies for my English - I'm not a native, I'll do my best though ;) .

      Regarding details:

      I have been dipping into the new series of lessons. It appears to me that, at numerous points, we are being moved away from the traditional doctrines taught 5 years back or so on PS. Am I correct?

      As you surely knows, poker develops extremely fast. Plays which were "insanely aggro" on NL10k four years ago, are now common on NL10. I guess it was Jason Koon who said that if you don't think that you were a fish 6 months ago, you're probably not working hard enough. That's why we're constantly improving our content (also by replacing it), in order to be up to date at all times. Please note that some of our strategy articles have been written 5 years ago, thus it's natural that some strategies might get outdated a bit.

      Our policy is to provide you with the latest strategies, that's why we're currently releasing brand new lessons. However, we do it stably and fluently, that's why it's a long lasting process, rather than "a revolution" ;) .

      Please also note that in poker there is no such thing as a "doctrine" ;) . One of our popular coaches once said that "a standard play is your enemy", meaning that you always need to think, adjust, and look for value wherever you can. There are, however, concepts (theory) and strategies (practice). In general concepts are "long lasting" and don't evolve much - a squeeze remains a squeeze, no matter who do you use it against, or what sizing do you choose :) . Strategies - on the other hand - are more elastic and change relatively often. As a result, there might be some old strategy articles, which could be slightly outdated, but there are plenty of concept-related articles as well, which are totally fine.


      Should we take these items as just alternative ideas, or as replacements for the traditional doctrines?


      One of our priorities is to keep our content consistent, that's why each time we release a lesson that contains strategies covered before by an old article, we replace old content with a new one. If an old article is outdated we set it invisible, but if it's okay we just move it to so called "extended materials" (for example here). This process, however, takes some time, as we don't release our new lessons in all communities at the same time, that's why sometimes some communities need to "wait for others" ;) .

      Regarding your question: my advice would be to treat the new content as a core and the old one as a supplement. You can be sure though that vast majority of important concepts and strategies covered in old articles are/will be explained in the new lessons + much, much more, so there is no need to worry :) .

      As soon as we release all the new lessons, we'll finalize the clean-up and make sure that there are no inconsistencies or overlaps between old and new content, and that everything is perfectly coherent.


      I note also that, at various points, there are attempts to distinguish between the various types of SNG. I respectfully suggest that these attempts do not go far enough. The gradations between 6-man, 9 & 10 man, multiplayer and, finally, 180-man tournaments are [IMHO] vast. Those differences need to be more clearly defined with clearer teachings on the relevant adjustments.


      Good point. However, please note that although these games have big differences, most concepts&strategies are still the same or similar, so it's practical to teach them "together". There are some topics which require separate approach indeed, like the bubble strategy, that's why we've made necessary distinctions wherever it's required. The bubble strategy module will be released soon - you'll see what I mean :) .

      It is also important to notice that our new lessons are highly concept-oriented. It's because our approach is to teach how to solve problems by your own, rather than to give ready answers. We're aware that strategies become ineffective quite fast and that independently thinking player will always beat a "bot" in the longrun :) . That's why instead of saying "in 18-man SNG on a stack of XXX chips, against a nit, open exactly these hands: xxx" we prefer to say "here is why, when and how you may change your range". In 2006 charts let people to earn money. In 2013 charts help them to begin their own process of constructing their ranges. The sooner we face this truth, the better for our poker career :) . This is another reason why sometimes we decide not to distinguish between given types of SNGs.


      I suggest the community would appreciate it if these fascinating articles were to be treated, not as completed items, but rather as "work-in-progress".


      Nothing is forever ;) . We'll surely do everything we can in order to release new materials but also to keep our current ones up to date. It's too early to reveal any details though, we need to find out a proper modus operandi :) .


      How about developing a complete, internally coherent, strategy book for playing all types of SNGs? The 'book' could have sections restricted to silver, gold, etc.And I do mean a 'book' rather than a series of articles. PS could readily develop a single PDF e-book, [with silver and gold chapters, etc.] and put up a link to it.


      Interesting idea, however:
      - I'm not sure if such a book would be practical to use. Please note that our new lessons have corresponding quizes, forum threads and - first of all - videos.
      - Imo our new lessons are/will create a "complete, internally coherent" educational piece :) .

      Maybe after we release entire SNG track we could make an e-book out of it? Who knows :) .


      Once again many thanks for your post, ideas and involvement, best of luck! :)
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      Hi there Glopslart, some good points made!

      I am not really in a position to say much about the SNG articles since I don't play these games and have not read much of either the old or new content. That said, the main thing that stands out to me is how you speak as though there is one correct play/doctrine and gaaish addressed that very well!

      However...
      Originally posted by Glopslart
      How about developing a complete, internally coherent, strategy book for playing all types of SNGs? The 'book' could have sections restricted to silver, gold, etc.

      And I do mean a 'book' rather than a series of articles. PS could readily develop a single PDF e-book, [with silver and gold chapters, etc.] and put up a link to it.
      I really don't see this happening (imo!). Given pokerstrategy.com's business model where you sign up and play tracked to earn a higher status and thus unlock new material, I don't see how there will ever be a way to just spam a higher status and then download a book and never return to the website. I'm sure you see my point about this - it just goes against the way that this site works and it would also open the doors to anyone who wants to download and distribute the book. Or maybe I've misunderstood what you meant by the idea?

      Lewis.
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 331
      Thanks for the comments, lots to chew over.