The cashier story

    • dreamtime
      Joined: 20.10.2010 Posts: 3,483
      One year ago I realized I'm very results oriented so I decided to not look into the cashier for a session. It was a real challenge at that time because I used to look in the cashier after every two minutes. You know how is it, most of the time it's not really about the money, it's probably a compulsive reaction of checking how you're running, reaction strongly connected with the level of anxiety. So I did it, I played without taking any glimpse of the cashier, so after about 4 hours of play (6max), I was completely shocked. I felt like I was robbed, I couldn't believed my eyes, have some sporadic thoughts like "they did something with my money" (this just being a more paranoid version of the classical "it's rigged") and trying to figure out how that robbery could have took place. As I remember, I lost about 10 buyins, though I estimated a loss of only 2-3 buyins, that difference explaining my reaction. Of course I quickly realized that it's not the platform, but my estimating incapacity.

      I forgot this episode and tried to improve my game like the majority on this forum, by videos, hand analysis, and recently some good books.

      Recently I had a long session played the same, not having a cashier sight for about 7 hours. It was incredible! I was so shocked again as I expected to have a profit of 2-3 buyins. It was +12 buyins! Before looking into the cashier I was prepared somehow even for a failure. During that session I played my A-game because I didn't know how I was running. I have a little problem, when I see I'm running hot I tend to quit the game. And if I don't quit the game I have two options: I play my B-game because I'm running very hot or I play my B-game because I' running very bad.

      Seeing this I said "ok, let's make an experiment and play 35 days (it was 25 sept+oct) without checking the cashier". I played every day 5-6 hours with my initial 18 buyins (my total bankroll is 100 BI) in the cashier and couldn't estimate at all what happened at the end of each session. In the last 3 days I ran bad. Very bad! I will not explain you how bad I ran, important is that I had no tilt at all. I was expecting to see a message like insufficient funds. Usually, when I loose 3-4 flips in a row or loose AA vs KK two in a row I'm sayin to myself "Yeahh....suuure" this being my tilt manifestation and feeling uncomfortable for...maximum 10-20 seconds., but this period I had no tilt at all I was calmly prepared to lower the limit as if I did it every single day.

      Today, because I'm not at home I had to switch the computers, having to play on the laptop and I saw accidentally the balance cashier. Shock! Again! 29 buyins were there!

      So, what's the moral of the story? If you have my problems, try for yourself and see if it's working for you. Increase your bankroll buyins with 40-50% could be a solution, hiding the cashier for a certain period of time, two weeks seems reasonable or adjust it by your needs, but I strongly recommend to not be shorter then 3 days because you'll tend to see each session as a whole and be results oriented which you don't want to happen, don't wanna count this session was good, this was bad. Remember the cashier is only to cash out the money, or to check when you'll have the next shot.

      As a curiosity, what's your longest period you haven't looked into cashier?
  • 7 replies
    • jonnyjm
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      But isn't it a good thing you thought you only lost 2-3BI when you had lost 10? Would you not have been more prone to tilt if you knew how much you actually were down? If you are comfortably bankrolled for a limit there really is no reason to check the cashier other than the start/end of the month, unless you think you are close to being able to move up stakes.
    • Alan883
      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      Great story dreamtime.

      Well i check my cashier at least after the session. Actually i check HM2 graphs and stats and so on. I haven't try not to check results after every session yet. I have to give you many compliments. This is quite an achievement and it looks like you have very strong will. Honestly i don't think i am able to do such challenge as you did. I don't think i am very result oriented but not knowing how i run would bother me to much.

      I can say only congratulations to you. Obviously you are person who can accept hard challenges and i think its time that you start with the next one. So what will be the next challenge? :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:

      Good luck
    • dreamtime
      Joined: 20.10.2010 Posts: 3,483
      @jonnyjm, yes, definitely it helped me when I loose also. So, a pattern, at least till now (i need more sessions to be sure), is that I tend to minimize both the win/loss amount which is good.
    • Glopslart
      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 331
      I am absolutely bewildered!
      How can you NOT keep regular track of how you are doing, either by checking the money balance or by checking your session history?

      If you are losing cash, you have to ask yourself why, before it becomes toooo much of a habit.

      I-poker gives you your running cash balance right there on the home screen - what about other sites?
    • dreamtime
      Joined: 20.10.2010 Posts: 3,483
      @Alan883, thanks :)

      next challenge will be not having a challenge until this one will be accomplished :) Umm...maybe to finish the book of TT, JB and EC!


      but...I'm not loosing cash :) I'm winning! :f_biggrin: Kidding! I have about 700k hands played, so if i'm not a good player, at least I have experience! :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: About 150-200k are played on pokerstars NL50, were i've been a perfect rackback pro: winnings zero, just the rake. So now I'm trying to get rid of old bad habits, changed from FR to SH, but you know, it doesn't really help you really really well to look yourself in database in order to see where you're wrong. I rather see database review good for small tweaks, small adjustments of a positional calling range let's say. I consider that big leaks will not be discovered by yourself in database, but from another better player. It is a matter of what line you take and when to apply aggressivity, when to float, rather then simply preflop decision. If you don't have big skill postflop, don't expect to discover yourself in db the best decision. At least, I'm not good enough that's why I see great videos, books etc.

      So personally I don't see any point in knowing where I am, how I'm running for a short period of time (2 weeks)

      Ladbrokes has the same, cashier in top right visible, could be make invisible if you want, Pacific network, Unibet the same
    • DaPhunk
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by dreamtime
      As a curiosity, what's your longest period you haven't looked into cashier?
      I think about a month. Same goes for looking at my graph or other results, I removed winnings and winrate from my HM overall stats and only have those stats in the 'by position' report and do a review of that 2 to 4 weeks.

      I recently moved back to Holdem Manager 2 due to HM1 missing a couple of stats I wanted to use and got extremely tilted by the fact that the session info and graph of your results is shown in your own hud if you click on the main popup. Its amazing how badly I played when this information became available to me again. I have since removed this information and only have table results in the popup.

      edit: Small note- strangely enough I play staked on a small unknown site where it is actually impossible to not see your balance or results session by session and the effect this seems to have on me is minimal or non-existent when compared to what happens with my own BR on stars.
    • dreamtime
      Joined: 20.10.2010 Posts: 3,483
      haha, last night before to sleep I read this in "The education of a moder poker", let me quote some fragments:

      TT: I hope you can now see why it’s of crucial significance not to focus on
      outcomes in the short term. These results are biased and don’t tell the
      truth. You need to let variance equal out over a big enough sample and
      check your results just weekly or monthly, not every two hours.


      ... Imagine an excellent investor, let’s call him Mr Julien,
      who has an expected return of 15% per annum and a 10% error rate per
      annum (his volatility). His probability of success over one year is 93%, over
      one quarter, 77%, over one month, 67%, over one day, 54%, over one hour,
      51.3%, over one minute, 50.17%, and over one second, 50.02%. If he checks
      the performance of his investments every minute, Mr Julien will be emo-
      tionally drained at the end of every single working day. He will experience
      241 pleasant minutes and 239 unpleasant minutes. If we assume that one
      unpleasant minute is at least twice as bad as a pleasant minute, we con-
      clude that he absolutely should not focus EV” will be higher if he realizes this and only focusses on
      weekly or monthly results, and higher still if he thinks in terms of success
      per quarter or per annum.
      Poker is very similar to many areas of finance; your edge per hand is ex-
      tremely small, almost invisible. Your edge per minute is almost a coin flip.
      It’s suicidal to focus on short term results. What we can and should do is to
      try to make the best possible decision at every single point. If we do this
      over a long enough period (or number of hands), we will see that our good
      decisions bring us positive results.
      In my mind, you should look at your entire poker career as one big session.
      Focusing on the long run and not being biased by short-term results
      should therefore be your main goal. I know it is difficult, and for those of
      you who have just started, I can assure that it is more difficult than you
      might expect. However, dealing with variance in a professional way is what
      distinguishes breakeven players from winners.