nl400 JJ 3b pot vs turn chr

    • Betaverzio
      Betaverzio
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2012 Posts: 583
      Pacific, $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $408 (102 bb)
      SB: $455.30 (113.8 bb)
      BB: $400 (100 bb)
      MP: $470.10 (117.5 bb)
      Hero (CO): $416 (104 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with J J
      MP raises to $12, Hero raises to $32, 3 folds, MP calls $20

      Flop: ($70) 6 8 7 (2 players)
      MP checks, Hero bets $38, MP calls $38

      Turn: ($146) A (2 players)
      MP checks, Hero bets $81, MP raises to $400.10 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Results:
      $308 pot ($4 rake)
      Final Board: 6 8 7 A
      MP mucked and won $304 ($153 net)
      Hero mucked J J and lost (-$151 net)



      Opponent is a quite loose reg, 25/21/8,8 3bet, 10k hands
      rfi mp 25, ft3 59, 4b range 6
      He did some spewy/tricky moves.
      I think have to bet for value/slash protection on the turn. And I did not expected CHR on the turn.
      I think he rarely has Ax, and chraises with good draws or nuts on flop.
      But I also represent a strong range.
      So I had no idea whether it is a call or not.

      What do you think?
  • 4 replies
    • mafrendd
      mafrendd
      Basic
      Joined: 28.04.2013 Posts: 11
      I believe fold to be the right choice. That was huge stack pushed on the turn Ace, even if you might have had the best hand and folded, but he will be the loser in the long run by playing such weird kinda move.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      Your preflop sizing is kinda small, so u will get call by a lot of trash. That will put u in this situation very often. I prefer 3betting to at least 38 here, if u have different sizings, JJ makes sense for this one ofc, but actually I like calling a little bit better. 25 rfi is kinda loose, but not sure JJ is good enough to 3bet against that.

      As played - call it, otherwise jut check back. I think he's draw heavy and it doesn't make too much sense to jam something like AQ here for him. Probably he has almost all A6s-A8s in his range because of your preflop sizing, but it's only 6 combos+maybe some slowplayed nuts. Then ofc many flushdraws and something like pair + oesd hands. Most likely u're flipping against his range, so it should be a call.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Is a couple of bb less than 3x the opensize your standard 3bet size?

      I believe I might level myself in this spot, I feel villain would not expect hero to think villain has many Ahi's in his flop calling range so he would get looked up light and this would make him Crai with a more value heavy range. Then hero would realise this is how villain thinks and start to muck hands like JJ, then Hero thinks villain puts good Ahis in his checking back flop range so this is a +EV C/R with ATC etc etc etc

      In reality I think I'd probably count combos - 1 AThh 1 A9hh 1 AJhh 4 J9s maybe 2 T9s (that didn't Craise OTF) 2 A8s. If this is along the right lines I think I can justify a call. I do hesitate in putting all those in his preflop calling range though.


      edit: I went ahead and looked for an approximately break-even call for you with a slightly tighter villain range:

      265/(346+146+346) = 0.316

      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 69.03% 69.03% 0.00% AhJh, QhJh, AhTh, KhTh, QhTh, JhTh, Ah9h, Jh9h, Td9d, Th9h
      MP3 30.97% 30.97% 0.00% JJ
    • Yonose
      Yonose
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2012 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by getdotacom
      Your preflop sizing is kinda small, so u will get call by a lot of trash. That will put u in this situation very often. I prefer 3betting to at least 38 here, if u have different sizings, JJ makes sense for this one ofc, but actually I like calling a little bit better. 25 rfi is kinda loose, but not sure JJ is good enough to 3bet against that.

      As played - call it, otherwise jut check back. I think he's draw heavy and it doesn't make too much sense to jam something like AQ here for him. Probably he has almost all A6s-A8s in his range because of your preflop sizing, but it's only 6 combos+maybe some slowplayed nuts. Then ofc many flushdraws and something like pair + oesd hands. Most likely u're flipping against his range, so it should be a call.
      +1