Learning to fold AA...

    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,423
      So last night I did this...

      Poker Stars $1.32+$0.18 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t25 - 4 players - View hand 2325598
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      SB: t4915 M = 7.02
      Hero (BB): t3250 M = 4.64
      CO: t4415 M = 6.31
      BTN: t920 M = 1.31

      Pre Flop: (t700) Hero is BB with A:diamond: Q:spade:
      2 folds, SB raises to t4890 all in, Hero calls t2825 all in

      Flop: (t6550) 7:club: 3:club: 7:diamond: (2 players - 2 are all in)

      Turn: (t6550) 5:spade: (2 players - 2 are all in)

      River: (t6550) 8:heart: (2 players - 2 are all in)

      Final Pot: t6550
      SB shows K:heart: 8:diamond: (two pair, Eights and Sevens)
      Hero shows A:diamond: Q:spade: (a pair of Sevens)
      SB wins t6550

      Immediately, I realized that I should have even folded AA there with the Button being so short, but can I ever really become that disciplined?
      Then this morning, this happened...

      Poker Stars $1.32+$0.18 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t25 - 4 players - View hand 2325595
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: t3717 M = 9.29
      CO: t431 M = 1.08
      BTN: t6991 M = 17.48
      Hero (SB): t2361 M = 5.90

      Pre Flop: (t400) Hero is SB with A:heart: K:diamond:
      1 fold, BTN raises to t500, 1 fold, BB calls t300

      Flop: (t1200) 9:heart: Q:diamond: 8:spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, BTN bets t600, BB calls t600

      Turn: (t2400) T:spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, BTN checks

      River: (t2400) 5:club: (2 players)
      BB bets t800, BTN calls t800

      Final Pot: t4000
      BB shows J:spade: K:spade: (a straight, Nine to King)
      BTN mucks 9:diamond: T:diamond:
      BB wins t4000

      Not AA yet, but working my way up there... I guess you CAN teach an old dog new tricks... :]
  • 7 replies
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      EDITED BY KURRKABIN
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,423
      Originally posted by ragney
      EDITED BY KURRKABIN
      Agreed... ;)


      I realize that maintaining that platinum status must take a fair bit of your time, so I appreciate that you chose to spend it helping out your fellow community members with an insightful and helpful comment... I'll be sure to take your advice for what it is worth.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Originally posted by Ramble
      Originally posted by ragney
      EDITED BY KURRKABIN
      Agreed... ;)


      I realize that maintaining that platinum status must take a fair bit of your time, so I appreciate that you chose to spend it helping out your fellow community members with an insightful and helpful comment... I'll be sure to take your advice for what it is worth.
      Lol status don't mean anything here, the content here is pretty low imo, the status shows how much rake PS.com earned from me.
    • PokerPPP
      PokerPPP
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 494
      Originally posted by ragney
      EDITED BY KURRKABIN
      ^rofl this. A bit harsh but yep I agree
    • Ramble
      Ramble
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.11.2008 Posts: 1,423
      For the benefit of anyone else reading this...

      The previous repliers are correct (obviously) that I should not be folding AA, but as a recreational player with far less experience then them, I didn't know this instinctively given that in both situations someone with only 2 blinds left was likely to bubble, putting me in the money.

      I've now done my review and it is below if you are interested...

      In the AQo hand, I have 22.95% Call Equity and 25.26% Fold equity, which suggests a fold would have been correct and I should only be calling with QQ+. My instinct after losing was right, but a calling range of 0% was not, it is about roughly 1.5%

      In the AKo hand, I have 20.78% Push Equity and 25.37% Fold Equity, which suggests a Fold was correct (in a push-fold scenario) and I should only be calling a push with AA. Another option, and maybe the best one - I don't know, would have been to call-fold to try and see the flop...
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,878
      • 11.10.2013, 19:30
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by ghaleon: 11.10.2013 19:33.
      In AQo hand versus competent player who understand he can shove any2 you could call something like AQs+, AKo, 77+. If we look only nash ranges it will likely be only 88+ or 99+. But that does not count future situations at all. Versus unknown or recreational player I would be tighter and might only call like TT+ or so. JJ+ at minimum.

      In AKo hand its bit different situation as we can also expect fold equity usually when we shove. So without reads I would not go crazy, but AK would still be shove most of time. Of course if we assume to have no fold equity then AK is good fold. Flatting with such stack depths and with worst position would make no sense really.

      PS: Fact that you are thinking of these spots is mark that you have some understanding of ICM. Which I would heavily doubt of most players in these stakes.
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Hi, guys and thanks for the input.

      At Ragney:
      I hope you understand using abusive language/negative attitude is not tolerated at all in our community. Please, try to be more constructive in your criticism.

      At Ramble:
      Posting and not be ashamed if you made a mistake is the way to go. You need to face them and improve, not hide. Mistakes is what we learn from. I can assure you that no matter how far you get in poker-nobody plays perfect and there is always room to improve. Simply asking yourself weather you made a bad play/is there a better play is already a good start.

      Anyway, I suggest you start posting hands in our hand evaluation forum <5$: Click

      It has helped me quite a lot(I'm still posting) together with all the video materials and articles on the site.

      Good luck!