PT 4 PFR and Raise first in stats

    • PokerPPP
      PokerPPP
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 494
      Hey guys, I noticed that the both PFR and Raise first in stats are in some cases higher than my VPIP stat, which can't be right. Yesterday I was playing a tourney and looked at a person's stat's and it said that VP was 2/10 =20% and the PFR stat was 2/9 = 22% - seems that 1 hand is missing/ not recorded in the PFR/Raise First In stat ( I tried both). How do I fix that ?

      Also, people say it is better to use Raise First in as you will know that this person was the first to open raise some amount of time. Does that mean that PFR also includes calls to raises or 3beting someone who openraised? What exactly is the difference?

      Thanks
  • 8 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,033
      Originally posted by PokerPPP
      Hey guys, I noticed that the both PFR and Raise first in stats are in some cases higher than my VPIP stat,
      This can occur if you raise involuntarily.
      Perhaps a muscle spasm, a misclick or a villain holding a gun to your head.
      :coolface:

      I'm truly sorry, I couldn't resist. :D

      But seriously, folks, I'm guess that this has happened to others too.
      I'm guessing a glitch in a Hand history.

      What platform to you play on?
      Are your HH in English?

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • PokerPPP
      PokerPPP
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 494
      FTP / Stars / Betsson - occurs on all platforms
    • ColorFlusher
      ColorFlusher
      Gold
      Joined: 19.01.2008 Posts: 843
      It's not a glitch.

      quoted from HM forum:

      In the past VPIP and PFR were based on the total number of hands. So if you played 10 out of 100 hands.... your VPIP would be 10%. VPIP is no longer based on number of hands, but on opportunities. When it's folded to you in the big blind, this hand is counted as a 'hand played'... but it doesn't count towards your VPIP. Similarly, if an opponent goes all-in, and you only have the opportunity to call, this hand won't be counted towards PFR. As a result VPIP and PFR are no longer based on the same number of hands. You could have VPIP 10% (10 out of 100 hands) with a PFR of 11% (10 out of 90 hands) (90.. because in the other 10 hands you didn't have the opportunity to raise)


      Yes.. both HoldemManager and PokerTracker have now based stats on opportunities. If you don't have the opportunity to 3bet (or to raise), or to make a continuation bet, etc. etc. this hand will not be counted towards the total 'number of hands': in the times you do make that move, divided by total 'number of hands'.


      Stats are more accurate now than they used to be.
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Originally posted by ColorFlusher
      It's not a glitch.

      quoted from HM forum:

      In the past VPIP and PFR were based on the total number of hands. So if you played 10 out of 100 hands.... your VPIP would be 10%. VPIP is no longer based on number of hands, but on opportunities. When it's folded to you in the big blind, this hand is counted as a 'hand played'... but it doesn't count towards your VPIP. Similarly, if an opponent goes all-in, and you only have the opportunity to call, this hand won't be counted towards PFR. As a result VPIP and PFR are no longer based on the same number of hands. You could have VPIP 10% (10 out of 100 hands) with a PFR of 11% (10 out of 90 hands) (90.. because in the other 10 hands you didn't have the opportunity to raise)


      Yes.. both HoldemManager and PokerTracker have now based stats on opportunities. If you don't have the opportunity to 3bet (or to raise), or to make a continuation bet, etc. etc. this hand will not be counted towards the total 'number of hands': in the times you do make that move, divided by total 'number of hands'.


      Stats are more accurate now than they used to be.
      Thanks for info!! this is news to me.

      Doesn't 3b also counting as PFR? If we 3bet (or 4bet) it also count as PFR, no? (see red colored above)
    • ColorFlusher
      ColorFlusher
      Gold
      Joined: 19.01.2008 Posts: 843
      Yes, 3bet counts as a pfr also.
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      you can also check out this thread regarding PFR and RFI to find out which is better for you

      VPIP / PFR replaced with RFI
    • PokerTracker
      PokerTracker
      Gold
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 659
      Originally posted by PokerPPP
      Hey guys, I noticed that the both PFR and Raise first in stats are in some cases higher than my VPIP stas
      This can occur because we account for times that the player was in the big blind and everyone folded to him (the big blind was walked). As others stated above, the calculation of our stats are always Actions/Opportunities to take that action. This is why you will never find a stat for # of times the player 3Bet with a specific hand or range of hands, we cannot determine the opportunity for anyone except the hero - instead we suggest using Automated NoteTracker notes for situations where opportunities cannot be tracked.
    • PokerPPP
      PokerPPP
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 494
      thanks everybody, really appreciate your input =)