Shortstacked on the bubble?

    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
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      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      Hi there

      I have a situation that causes me endless frustration so I would appreciate to hear different opinions about what people do in this situation... I would have posted some hands but I am having problems converting my hands, but I am quite sure everyone is familiar with the situation.

      Scenario:

      Low limit SNG <$10 - 10-players 4 remaining
      Hero is short-stacked with 4BB remaining.
      Hero is BB
      2 folds, SB completes.

      What do you do?

      Pots odds would dictate that if SB pushed we would call with any 2 cards, correct?

      So do we:

      1) Push and expect a call, maybe a stupid fold and play the way villain was supposed to play?

      2) Take the free play, evaluate on the flop and if we don't hit hope the poker gods smile on us soon and survive at least a hand or 2 longer?

      3) Push on the flop because villain is known to limp with rags and hope that he folds if he did not hit?

      Do you do the same for all cards? Obviously if you're holding aces its an easy decision, but what would you do with 24o or 37o?

      And final question:

      What would you do if in the exact same situation if BU only has 2BB left?

      OK, thanks in advance for your opinions...

      Nick
  • 10 replies
    • sirilidion
      sirilidion
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      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 1,575
      easy push in my opinion if you let the blind go by you, you'll just have even less chance of making it in the money. The push might be -EV but folding is even more -EV so you got to go with the less bad dicision.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      OK, I'm not saying fold... if there's a push then push... but the question really is when to push... I have been playing around with this and I believe that at the lower limits there are players bad enough that will lay down a stronger hand... let me give an example of taking the freeplay:

      SB completes with 6s 6c
      Hero checks with 2h 7c

      Flop Ah Ks Tc

      Villain checks
      Hero bets all-in

      Preflop the villain would have called the push no problem, but by taking the freeplay and then pushing the villain may think his pair is beaten and rather than choosing to double up a short stack villain may fold. Now this won't always work... but generally if villain is going to call on the flop he would generally call preflop as well... but if he folds post flop in certain situations would that give taking the freeplay an edge?
    • curnow
      curnow
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      Joined: 10.10.2007 Posts: 1,039
      he will have pocket pair 1-16 hands and if you have an above average hand (like above Q 7 ) make a move , but get to know your opponent & adjust game to suit

      few things worth checking out PokerStove & look at hand ranges + % against random hand & also take a look at ICM trainer
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/software/8/
    • Dragar
      Dragar
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      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Hmm I definatly would take the free play and try to steal the pot.
      Sometimes sb players limp on purpose... freaking big shock when you bet all in because he completes and he reveals AK or so.

      If you have been aggresive in the bubble they like to do that to.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      @curnow: yeah I agree... last night I was experimenting on the $1 turbos on Party Poker.... It's worked remarkably well, it was kinda like: If you want a call, push preflop, if you want a fold take the free play, then push.... I am going to check out pokerstove, and don't worry on ICM trainer a lot.... that's kinda why I brought up this topic because according to ICM we only have 2 options, push or fold, no check, then push.... so I wanted opinions on the theories credibility...

      @dragar: it's scary what players will limp at these limits, but if they're holding a premium hand they were calling no matter what you do.... I think they're just too scared that you will fold and they won't get value out their hand so they wait for you to make the first move....
    • uwebommel666
      uwebommel666
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      Joined: 22.09.2007 Posts: 354
      in that situation i would take the push against his complete... u always have outs! a check and try to shove in on the flop is most of the times not profitable because ure second to act on the flop and villain will most of the time already have bet the flop and with ur remaining 3bb u cant overpush!
      however, i would try adjusting my game and push all in one hand earlier from utg with any two. the push might be -ev, however looks stronger and is respected more often!
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
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      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      interesting... if villain bet on the flop was pushing anyway... but duly noted... thanks...
    • Dragar
      Dragar
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      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by NickParkes
      OK, I'm not saying fold... if there's a push then push... but the question really is when to push... I have been playing around with this and I believe that at the lower limits there are players bad enough that will lay down a stronger hand... let me give an example of taking the freeplay:

      SB completes with 6s 6c
      Hero checks with 2h 7c

      Flop Ah Ks Tc

      Villain checks
      Hero bets all-in

      Preflop the villain would have called the push no problem, but by taking the freeplay and then pushing the villain may think his pair is beaten and rather than choosing to double up a short stack villain may fold. Now this won't always work... but generally if villain is going to call on the flop he would generally call preflop as well... but if he folds post flop in certain situations would that give taking the freeplay an edge?
      I have thought about this too recently:

      I was playing in a tournie beeing low stacked.
      I am BB and someone before me raises to 3x BB. Everyone else fold and I hold QQ. I put him on AK (which was true) and I push. He calls and gets A on the turn. I am eliminated.

      Something tells me if I would have called the 3x blind raise, he would have min-raised the flop. I would have pushed.. and he should have folded realizing that I have pockets and he is the underdog.

      I will try this next time. I don't want these coinflips pre-flop anymore, it doesn't seem to be the best strategy. I want my emergency break on the flop... if I see the A there I know I am beat and can still fold. If its not there I can push and should have more fold equity then pre-flop.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      This has been working fairly well for me... anytime I get called pushing post flop I feel the hand would have called pre-flop... but I have won pots this way with 83o, 23o etc... flops that I have missed and the players are just bad enough to fold...

      And I also like the UTG push.... when I have less than 5BB I have been pushing any 2 UTG... does gain a lot of respect... In a couple situations from being UTG <5BB I have pushed and picked up the blinds, then as BB sb completes, check then push flop.... SB pushed any 2 against BB and I have doubled my stack all with rags...

      When you are short stacked, and the blinds are large these can be incredibly useful plays IMO... rather than waiting for good cards... these can be very profitable....
    • Jesusitonsky
      Jesusitonsky
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      Joined: 25.11.2007 Posts: 3,011
      in this scenario i prefer to push any two on the flop. I dont have fold equity to take the limp at the SB.