3 betting out of position

    • maca1214
      Joined: 22.07.2013 Posts: 74
      I know this question depends so much on villians tendencies but if you 3 bet from the blinbss with say AQ off and totally miss the flop to a button or CO open raise.
      What's your view on whether you should check or cbet.

      Is there a stat in HM2 that tells you how often villain folds to cbets in 3bet pots maybe?

      Sometimes I bet and regret it because villain has me crushed and think to myself "aaaarg why am I giving her more money" and then i check and fell silly for being so passive and letting villain take the pot away when my A high was probably good.
  • 4 replies
    • Rihard4a
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,037
      Well generally it depends on the villain. How often does he fold to 3bets in BU/CO, how often does he fight back (4bet, preferably to know what range, there is a stat 4bet range in HM2). Does the villain fold to cbets in 3bet pots? Sometimes it is useful to know whether he fold OOP or IP.

      If someone folds 90% to cbets on decent sample and now he called your 3bet, then I would not cbet very often because he is going to have you crushed most of the times. If someone folds to 3bets like 50% and calls your 3bet, I generally check whether this player folds to cbets in 3bet pots. Once you know this you need to think what is the best line to take. If he folds 100% to cbets he can cbet almost all the time and expect to take the pot down. If he has like 30% then cbet only strong hands.

      It really depends also on the history you have with the player and whether he is a thinking reg.

      But general stats to look after are Fold to 3bet, 4bet/4bet range, fold to cbet 3bet pots, raise flop cbet 3bet pots.

      If someone has high percentage of flop raise in 3bet pots and also low fold to 3bet you can expect them to bluff you on the flop very often and you need to learn to take advantage of it as well. If you someone raises flop cbets a lot you don't want to cbet very often your air but rather nutted hands and then let him bluff all the way down. Marginal hands would be better to check/call.

      Hope this kinda helps.


    • maca1214
      Joined: 22.07.2013 Posts: 74
      Great reply thanks. Seems the more you learn the more you need to learn. :)
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,828
      Sample size is a big part of this.

      "Fold to CBet in 3Bet pots" is not going to happen often.
      If you have 1000 hands on a player, you might be lucky if there are 50 opportunities for him to fold to a CBet.

      Not only that, but a lot of players will call a flop CBet if they are IP.

      Your own table image comes into play too.

      Lots of different factors.
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,337
      Hey maca1214, moved your thread to the NL boards (I'm assuming you're playing NL cash games?) :)

      As Rihard4a explained it just depends too much to give a blanket statement. Generally the wider his range is on the flop, the more often he'll be forced to fold because his range is overall weaker. But that doesn't mean he will fold, so keep an eye on his tendencies and remember to take notes! It's pretty helpful when you 3bet with a hand like AA for example and then cbet a really low dry board and they just fold - what does that say about this guy's tendencies?

      It also helps to define your own 3betting range a little as well. For example, if you have a guy who folds a ton to 3bets (>70%) then you will want a different range than if he folded ~50% for example. If you 3bet someone who folds 70%+ it will generally be with trashy hands and because you expect the 3bet in itself to be profitable. It may not be the highest EV play, but in these situations if he does call your 3bet, you can simply give up - because he is continuing with such a narrow range he probably won't be folding on the flop. Conversely, if you 3bet a guy who rarely folds and then you start check/folding when you miss then you will be burning money. So against that guy you can see how you'll want a stronger range (so that you end up giving up less often postflop).

      There is a ton of stuff to consider when it comes to 3betting and nothing will replace posting hands for evaluation, so imo you should take a few hands where you 3bet and post them for one of the judges to take a look at.

      Originally posted by maca1214
      Seems the more you learn the more you need to learn. :)