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Preflop Ai with AK and QQ, who still does this?

    • churchilland
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 263

      so according to MSS charts if someons raise your 3bet from middle position and you have AK QQ, you go all in.

      I played on zoom tables and found such strategy very unprofitable in fact its like giving the money away.

      if you have QQ then the best case scenario you'll go against AK, which is 50 50 an opponent need to catch K or A or he can catch straight or even flush if he has suited. So its total gambling and I don't like it. But tats only best scenario, in my experience many players if their raise your 3bet they will have KK or AA so to play with QQ and AK all in on pref lop is a suicide.

      But I wonder about other people experience, do you play All in with QQ an AK, lets say against LAG, TAG palyers or when HUD data is unknown (often case in zoom game)

      for people who would come to this thread from front page PLEASE BE AWARE THAT i posted this on Medium stack strategy forum, so Im talking about MSS not BSS

      thank you
  • 4 replies
    • dooleslovs
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 485
      Easy 3bet/fold with AK;QQ. No money in poker everyone solid.
    • Jafreiteris
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 283
      Does KTs vs QJs 50-50? If no, so does the QQ vs AK. worst senario is QQ are 3% favorite against suited AK, and at best is 7% favorite against unsuited AK when QQ dont have the same suited cards. (KTs vs other suite QJs - 8% favorited KTs.
    • HypnoMarsu
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29

      The thing is the basic MSS charts are designed for when you buy in for 40bb or less. But in zoom you have to buy in for 50bb which means you need to tighten up your broke ranges when the effective stack is bigger.

      When you have AK or QQ you need to ask yourself how much equity you need considering effective stacks + dead money and ask yourself what is villains range when he 4 bets your MP 3bet

      ex utg OR 3bb, you 3bet to 9bb your stack was 50 bb when the hand started, the blinds fold -> 1.5 bb dead money and utg 4bets you AI

      equity needed to break even (not considering rake) is

      (bb left in your stack)/(final pot)=(50-9)/(50+50+1.5)=41/101.5=0.40

      If villains 4bet range is 3% (JJ+, AKs and AKo) you put this in equilab.
      Then use the equity we calculated earlier in the hand range calucator and we get the range we can go broke with. In this case its QQ+ AKs.

      The 4bet range will of course vary between formats (FR/SH) and stakes.
      So you should do the calcuation again with your 3bet sizings and with the range you think the average villain 4bets (check your hand history).

      You should also check how much equity you need with stack sizes between the point you rebuy and point you leave the table.
      for example 55bb 50bb 45bb and so on.

      Hope that helps.
    • Johnis
      Joined: 23.07.2009 Posts: 77
      A bit out of topic, but Hypno Marsu has just answered the misterious question I had for a while : why do thousands of Russian decent MSS players don't play Zoom ? Because you have to buy in for 50 BB minimum. Thanks Hypno! :)