Worrying about EV$ and other stuff

    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      Hi there,

      This post is primarily directed at Skodjlivec, but I will also happily discuss everyone else's opinions.

      Lately I have been stabbing at PLO25 zoom and the results are underwhelming. I am up 14BI's but my EV line says I should be two BI's below EV. So if you think that I just luckboxed my way through, I will not disagree that I got lucky a bunch of times, winning huge pots and all, but a VERY large amount of my EV losses come down to my cbetting and bluffing, stacking off with middle set over top set and having my opponents call me down to the river with their draws. Hence, I am more worried not about the actual winnings but the way I am playing hands.

      Now, if I was to talk about the progression from PLO10 to PLO25, I can easily tell that I was a winning player over a 80k hands and that the EV line, albeit not as good as I could hope for, was 25BIs into the green and 21BIs into green EV.

      I have hence several questions that I want to ask:

      1. First of all, should I be worried about that at all? I have a ridiculously small sample of PLO25 (at this very moment), so I should not be overly judgmental on myself as I am still learning, but I really think I should cut down on my tendencies.

      2. I have cut down on calling down 3bets an slightly improved in hand selection, yet I feel I still cannot adequately evaluate the situation in 3bet pots where I am the agressor. For example, I cannot think of the line of action on boards such as J89 or QT4 where I completely whiff or have TP+gutshot at best. I know Skodjlivec has told me via his weekly coachings, that you should gradually adapt to 3betting, but I am still unsure of the best lines to take afterwards.

      3. Bluffing. As much as I like representing made hands, they incur the biggest losses for me, mainly because I overrep Ax hands many a time and people are inclined to flat with aces more than 4bet. I believe I have lost close to 5-6 BIs if not more just in this situation alone. How often should one bluff and how often should you rep those Ax hands?

      4. cbetting. My worst issue. I have a near 90% tendency to cbet every board I raise, except for 4way pots. Now I reduced this to 80% after playing PLO25 but overall I still do not know when I should cbet and when I shouldn't. Of course, I am more inclined to cbet with complete air and give up, whereas I would opt for a check-raise in many other situations. On the turn however, my cbet averages 45% which is completely not in accordance with flop bets.

      These are the issues off the top of my head and I would gladly hear some opinions on how to better approach them and improve.
  • 4 replies
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Hi,

      my lates vid will have a segment on the EV line :)

      The interesting thing is that in every point you answer your own question correctly. You know where you make mistakes. You know which areas of your play need work. What alse can you ask for? :)

      Regards,

      Skod
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,507
      In that 80K hand sample you have EV winrate of 2,5bb/100. I don't know if you have counted rakeback into that or not, but it's close to breakeven.

      Cbetting is somewhat different in PLO than in HE. 90% cbet is indeed a lot, especially if you have lots of 3+way pots. Turn cbet of 45% isn't bad itself, it all depends on villains and situations. You say it's not good with 90% flop cbet, why is that?

      One good way to start learning all those spots is to mark when you have them in your playing. And then post them to strategy section and discuss about the spots with coaches and members.
    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      In PLO10 it worked fine (the 90% cbet thing), however, in PLO25 I have to fold a lot to raises and check-raises because more often that not I don't get a piece of the board good enough for me to stack off. Eventually, this leads to me burning money as I eventually only get the profit more by stacking off and not by winning smaller pots.

      Also, there are many situations where there are flush draws or straight draws on the board and I valiantly cbet only to have to fold to a turn raise.

      By the way, no, rakeback is not included in the combination, but I highly doubt I got more than 100$ from rakeback. Would be difficult to count somewhat though. But

      The biggest problem is that I cannot find a definitive answer to each and every problem that arises. After a while I begin to speculate whether I take the correct lines and make correct decisions or not, hence beginning to doubt myself.

      Oh, and I want some suggestions (albeit they can be abstract), hence the open questions.
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      I mean obviously you can't answer all of the questions for yourself. You have to post hands, get coachings, watch vids, watch coachings etc to improve in those spots. However, the way you approach your issues is very good, you know where your weak areas are and where you have to improve, so just keep up the good work.

      Regards,

      Skod