vs light 3bet charts. pls comment

  • 13 replies
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
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      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      29 views so far and no comments??
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
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      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,860
      do the things on the right mean how to react against a 10% 3bet range that looks like 77+,A8s+,KJs+,ATo+,KQo?

      it's nice that you put in some effort into it, but i think that a) 10% 3bet range rarely ever looks like that b) seems like you are mostly using pure hot and cold equity as the basis for your decisions, and while that's a good point, there's more things to it.
      anyway, try coming up with some other types of 3bet ranges (hint: polarized) and think on how that could affect your range and how play could proceed on various flops.
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
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      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      JJ+, AQo , AQs+ is already 4% which is polarized to the nuts. i just added some combos to come up with 10%

      so if we took out the medium pp and add some random trash and exchange some Ax type hands into KQs and KJs KQo. would that be polarized for you?

      its always hard to put an exact 10% 3bet range on someone but against a top heavy 10% range do you think my reaction on the right readless would be ok? by readless i mean light 3bet hands that went to showdown.

      i guess what im trying to do is see how the community would react with say QQ oop with 63% equity against a 10% light 3bettor. would hey rather flat? 4bJ or na4b? and so on with other troublesome hands
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
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      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      well not much of a disuccion going on around here...
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
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      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,927
      Hey Phgrinder,

      It's a little early in Europe so hang on in there :D
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
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      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      What format is this for? If HU SnGs, this isn't a light 3betting range at all, in fact it's very tight.

      If you've switched to another format, i'd say the composition of this range isn't realistic, it seems to just be the top 10% of hands so we need to make it more polarised. I'd say this is a more realistic range for someone who is light 3betting, bearing in mind I just threw this together in a minute or so:

    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      I'm guessing its ring games because he has ip and oop. But imo it depends and where you are getting 3bet from and your position. Think about your opening range and then how you'd play that against a 3bet...

      Its kind of hard to answer your question...
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
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      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      @wriggers
      its for 6max im helping out my friend who doesnt have an account here. i know its 10% but value heavy thats why we can discount the small pp and add some randombluffs take away the weak x and add some suited connectors and still get 10%. the point is 4% of it will always be JJ+ and AQo+ AQs+ we can just add random 6% so it can be balanced or 6% premium hands and it will be polarized to nuts.

      @holmeboy
      the chart on the right is actually what you would do if you had QQ oop ( open CU / MP / EP ) and you get light 3bet from the BTN

      or

      you had QQ ip you RFI from CU / BTN and get light 3bet from the blinds.
      what would you do against a 10% 3betting range 4% is top heavy 6% is bluffs ( or whatevr you want to put it against ) since its readless anyway.
      would you 4bj QQ oop? would you na4b QQ or would you flat? same with the other hands?

      QQ stands 63% against this top heavy range of 6% medium str hands + 4% premiums. so if we get 6% trash hands and 4% premiums QQ would be more than 63%. i just used this range as an example. what would you guys do in general readless?
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
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      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,927
      Why doesn't your friend set up an account here then? The more people the merrier, the more discussion, the better we all get :)
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
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      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      well techinically he did , but never got the 50$. failed the verification. not much of a forum guy either.
    • ragney
      ragney
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      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      I think it depends on the villain and reads more than just "readless" play/calculations. If we have little stats/reads/notes we play tighter in general. The more stats/read/notes we have the looser we can and should play. If someone is 3betting me light I call as light as hands like 45s, 67o and play postflop. Don't be afraid to play postflop, the only way to learn to play better postflop is by playing it. Playing pre preflop is just stupid and much much less profitable than playing postflop.

      edit: all micro/low stake players are bad at postflop, if you're not going to try/learn playing them you can forget the higher stakes.
    • booomm
      booomm
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      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      one thing that is very important and I believe it hasen't been mentionned yet in the thread is blockers. vs someone who 3b light, you should always take into account blockers to his value hand to play back or flat. I'm not good with numbers, math etc... so I can't elaborate on this much, but I believe this is the most important aspect.
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
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      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      Originally posted by ragney
      I think it depends on the villain and reads more than just "readless" play/calculations. If we have little stats/reads/notes we play tighter in general. The more stats/read/notes we have the looser we can and should play. If someone is 3betting me light I call as light as hands like 45s, 67o and play postflop. Don't be afraid to play postflop, the only way to learn to play better postflop is by playing it. Playing pre preflop is just stupid and much much less profitable than playing postflop.

      edit: all micro/low stake players are bad at postflop, if you're not going to try/learn playing them you can forget the higher stakes.
      good point. but id like to hear more from other members how they react with their 4b range