# MTT's and sng's calculations

• Bronze
Joined: 30.06.2011
Hey guys,

My question is related to when calculating the mathematical average we'll need for an ITM or a ft.
ex: (452 players x 1500chips)/9=ft average, fairly simple.

I was wondering if any of you guys know some formula or relation between the average and the number of players, because if we're calculating the average for an ITM with 100 players the dispersion from the mathematical average and the farthest stack from the avg will be larger right?
So is there any way we can relate both, did a quick search didn't found anything, maybe it's easier than I think?
• 11 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 01.06.2010
Just moved to MTT forum, will get more suitable exposure here.

Regards,
Luke
• Bronze
Joined: 30.06.2011
Originally posted by legand73
Just moved to MTT forum, will get more suitable exposure here.

Regards,
Luke
Thanks

bump
• Moderator
Moderator
Joined: 22.09.2006
I am not sure if I understand your question.
Why would you want to relate both? Which goal are you trying to achieve with this correlation?

Regards,
Asaban
• Bronze
Joined: 05.02.2012
the formula you gave realates number of players with average stack size

(452 players x 1500chips)/9=ft average

total chips/number of players=average stack size

that is probably not what you meant by your question but that was what you were asking for
• Bronze
Joined: 30.06.2011
Originally posted by mkjmkjmkj
the formula you gave realates number of players with average stack size

(452 players x 1500chips)/9=ft average

total chips/number of players=average stack size

that is probably not what you meant by your question but that was what you were asking for
I was giving an example, no that's not what I was asking for.
ty aw

I am not sure if I understand your question.
Why would you want to relate both? Which goal are you trying to achieve with this correlation?

I'll try to explain it again, I'm trying to know how does the standard deviation (not sure if that's translated correctly) is related to the number of players and consequently with the avg stack, it probably involves statistics, not sure if it's even possible to calculate it though.
As to your question about what goal I'm trying to accomplish it's a way of knowing what will be the CL/SS stacks, not sure if I'm making sense at all as this came to my head instantly.
• Bronze
Joined: 19.12.2009
I'm not sure if I got your point. Maybe is possible to apply a gaussian distribution. Set a shortstack to be about 5bb and a big stack about 100bb, so you can have and idea of the distribution of stacks.

LoL, I don't know if that make sense.

Anycase, the value of stacks will depend on the value of blinds and this depends on the time, so you have to have an ideia of what blind levels the buble is going to be.
• Moderator
Moderator
Joined: 22.09.2006
I guess I have an idea of what you are searching for.
However, I can't give you an answer and I don't think an answer would help you, or even improve your game, in any way. From my point of view, the results would be meaningless and in most cases even wrong.

Feel free to ask further if you think that I got it wrong. From my understanding rmslobato delivered a possible answer. However, as I already mentioned, the result wouldn't be of any use (at least not as far as I can see).

Regards,
Asaban
Joined: 23.03.2011
Hey beerzy,

Not sure if I can help you, but I do have a couple of things I can add to the melting pot.

1) I've noticed that in most of the large field MTTs that I play, after between 30-60 minutes a natural hierarchy forms. The average stack starts to sit predominately in a very narrow range of 30-35% with fluctuations of around 3% outside that range, which means for the entire midgame period means between 65 and 70% of players are constantly below average.

2) A possible way to plot the data would be by using Harrington's 'Q', which is simply your stack / average stack. Shortstacks will generally have a low value like 0.1 while the chip leader will generally be 6+, while naturally an average stack will have a value of 1.

Don't know if this helps or not.

Laz
• Bronze
Joined: 19.12.2009
Originally posted by Lazza61
Hey beerzy,

Not sure if I can help you, but I do have a couple of things I can add to the melting pot.

1) I've noticed that in most of the large field MTTs that I play, after between 30-60 minutes a natural hierarchy forms. The average stack starts to sit predominately in a very narrow range of 30-35% with fluctuations of around 3% outside that range, which means for the entire midgame period means between 65 and 70% of players are constantly below average.

2) A possible way to plot the data would be by using Harrington's 'Q', which is simply your stack / average stack. Shortstacks will generally have a low value like 0.1 while the chip leader will generally be 6+, while naturally an average stack will have a value of 1.

Don't know if this helps or not.

Laz
Yeah, I assumed this distribution to be a gaussian type (just because it's very common this distribution type appears naturally).
However I'm really curious to look at a sample of pre-bubble distribution of stacks.
• Bronze
Joined: 05.02.2012
if you want the standard deviation when there is 9 man left then you need a sample to estimate it.

then you should look at some tourneys when there is 9 man left and calculate the standard deviation. you get a better estimate the more tourneys you look at.
• Bronze
Joined: 30.06.2011
Originally posted by rmslobato
I'm not sure if I got your point. Maybe is possible to apply a gaussian distribution. Set a shortstack to be about 5bb and a big stack about 100bb, so you can have and idea of the distribution of stacks.

LoL, I don't know if that make sense.

Anycase, the value of stacks will depend on the value of blinds and this depends on the time, so you have to have an ideia of what blind levels the buble is going to be.
But your general idea of using a standard value might be right but we would need to look and analyze huge samples right?

2) A possible way to plot the data would be by using Harrington's 'Q', which is simply your stack / average stack. Shortstacks will generally have a low value like 0.1 while the chip leader will generally be 6+, while naturally an average stack will have a value of 1

Yes I do get the ideia, but my ideia was to use in satellites and big fields itm's, so I don't think it will apply here.

I think I self explained myself better, as the example I gave wasn't really what I was asking, but anyway when I have time I'll try to look at a database of itm's in satties to come to some conclusion!
Thank you all,