low limit sng ($2 or less)

    • montsa
      montsa
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2008 Posts: 9
      hi,
      ive been playing small limits according to the charts for a while now,
      but after a period of down swing im less than $5.00 ....
      are there anything ishould keep in mind when playing low limit sng's?
      i mean, in the push/ fold stage my push keep getting called by cards like T5x
      A2x, T9, KTx, etc...
      the worst thing is, everytime when i seem to have the better hand, they would catch theirs and beat me... :(
      is it just me, or does table image mean nothing in these low limits?

      and HU, i get murdered in- coming in big stacked or not, the opponent always seem to catch their cards against me in all-in's...
      it really sucks cause 2nd place gets wins nothing in low limit games like these...
      anyways, i think i need a miracle to build my br back up to anything close to $50 lol,
      and the shitty thing is, the few HU i do finally win, i usulaly have the worse hand and I get lucky...
      any advice on whta i should keep in mind when playing low limits?
  • 13 replies
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi montsa,

      If you have been spewing money for the last month on the low limits, you need to analyze your game. I noticed you haven't posted any sample hands, in the sample hands forum. Chances are that your not in a down swing at all, and you are infact playing loosing poker. Analyzing your game is the key to success.

      You are correct, table image and reads mean pretty much nothing on the low limits. You need to play simple ABC poker.

      HU as an endgame is pretty simple. The SAGE system will help you alot in this stage.

      Also you are highlighting unlucky and lucky situations in your post. If you play 60 hands in a SnG, and all your best hands hold up, its only a matter of time before your better hand is beat. Its all in the odds, and this is an important fact every poker player needs to realise. Its easy to say OMG my AK was beat by AQ, but ofc this will happen from time to time. How the game is approached mentally is the most underated factor of poker imo.

      I'll state that, none of my comments are intended to insult you in any way. I just think admiting your loosing because of bad play and not being unlucky is the first step. I do realise that you may infact be a winning player previous to joining pokerstrategy, in which case I'd still advise you to take note of my comments.

      I'll also add that asking and answering questions on the forum, is a huge help. I believe that without players telling me that my comments were wrong (more so, when I first joined), I wouldn't be at the stage I am at now with my poker career.

      GoodLuck,
      Stiev
    • z4tz
      z4tz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 2,043
      Agree totally, it is so easy to just lean back and see how you get beaten by one worse hand after another, it happens from time to time yes but it might be that you accually put yourself in the bad situations where you are more likely to be sucked out.
      Example you raise to low for draws to fold or you bet to high so on your good hands you accually get no money since everyone fold.

      I myself was in that situation a few months ago, i thought my game was quite good but i never made it to the final money because i got to few cards that i could play. After a while i realized i needed to become a bit looser and more aggresive (im a very tight player), else everyone just folded when i threw out a bet i noticed after a while. So i sat down and whent through all the hand-sheets and strategies again and changed my game heavily and i went from -10% ROI to +7%
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi z4tz,

      Good job on turning your game around. Its always good to see players put the strategy's to good use. I'm also sure that montsa can do the same.

      Nice post z4tz!

      Goodjob,
      Stiev
    • montsa
      montsa
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2008 Posts: 9
      what kind of sample hands should i post?
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi montsa,

      It depends on which part of your game you think you need to work on.

      If you bust out alot in the early stages, you should post some hands in which you played and busted out in that stage.

      If your unsure of how to play a particular hand, then post it. The hand judges will tell you the correct way it should be played

      Best regards,
      Stiev
    • 1seednoir1
      1seednoir1
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 1,068
      I'm trying to turn 4$ into alot more at Pokerstars. i'm at 18$ now. the reason why i came this far(not) is; When i hold SHC hand in position i tend to bet aggressively preflop. On the flop i just play the cards, which mean checking if the deck is no help, betting to get information if i feel weakness. I also try not to call many bets; I usually prefer to be the one betting. Just because those calling you with loose hands tend to get chips outta you right after they hit the flop. I always say to myself "don't get too attached to the hand" in other words it don't matter if you have a good hand if you don't have a favorable flop. I also don't go broke on a draw, when its cost too much i let go with no regret.
      Talking about a tight image; I realized that in low limits people tend to fear the one with a lot of chips :) . So i deduced that you need to have some chips(double stack) before showing a tight image. I'm saying that because people always want to bust the one with less chips. A way to double your stack is by playing a bit loose in the early stages. Loose for me is playing 109s, J10s, Q10s,QJs carefully...

      I don't know if a coach will agree with such advices but it works for me in low limits.

      Edit: don't go broke preflop or bet half your stack, that way you just will have your back against the wall!
    • z4tz
      z4tz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 2,043
      Talking about a tight image; I realized that in low limits people tend to fear the one with a lot of chips smile . So i deduced that you need to have some chips(double stack) before showing a tight image. I'm saying that because people always want to bust the one with less chips. A way to double your stack is by playing a bit loose in the early stages. Loose for me is playing 109s, J10s, Q10s,QJs carefully... I don't know if a coach will agree with such advices but it works for me in low limits.


      It is possible to deviate out playing more hands but in the early stages its just all out against the strategy and modell pokerstrategy uses for SnG-play. We want to be able to sit back, wait for other players to knock eachother out and when we have a good hand we sweep in and take some money.

      When we are getting a bit more shorthanded and blinds become big relative the stacks we start playing more aggresive and a bit more loose.
    • ByronVW
      ByronVW
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2008 Posts: 37
      Hi all,

      This is my first post and I am a relatively new member to pokerstrategy.com (about 3 weeks). I have however been playing poker for about 2 years and SNG are probably my favourite. My reason for this is because of the comment that z4tz made. SIT back and RELAX!!! :)

      If you are at a normal speed table (blinds increase every 10-15 minutes
      ) wait until the blinds are atleast $50 before getting involved (Fold everything less than TJ). This means that about 45 minutes have passed, your stack is probably around 1200 + and at a 9 seater SNG u are guaranteed to see only 6-7 left. Hence all the loose players gone (hopefully).

      Secondly you have now created an image that you are playing very tight and not calling with crap cards. Time to get loose :)

      Raise in the appropriate postion and bring your stack back to the starting amount or atleast 10% higher than that.

      Play your normal game and even if you don't win the SNG you probably have played well enough to make top 3 ( 9 seater ) and made it pass the bubble. If you finish 3rd you have made slightly more than what you paid to enter and are even steven's. Try another SNG and eventually you will win one and make profit.

      Hope this is useful to anyone and this strategy has definitely worked for me in the past.

      Good luck to all and hopefully we all make poker a profitable hobby or profession. Thanks to pokerstrategy for all its done for the game and help it has brought to my game.


      Cheers,
      Byron
    • 1seednoir1
      1seednoir1
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 1,068
      well Byron actually in low limits there is only the first or second place that really get rewarded... so what u said is cool but it takes forever to built a bankroll. Also a slight mistake that get you busted before the money will erase all the cents you've won placing 3rd or 4th in couple tourneys. I think that you need to have a nice stack to take out the pressure and play deep SHC
    • 1seednoir1
      1seednoir1
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 1,068
      Originally posted by z4tz
      Talking about a tight image; I realized that in low limits people tend to fear the one with a lot of chips smile . So i deduced that you need to have some chips(double stack) before showing a tight image. I'm saying that because people always want to bust the one with less chips. A way to double your stack is by playing a bit loose in the early stages. Loose for me is playing 109s, J10s, Q10s,QJs carefully... I don't know if a coach will agree with such advices but it works for me in low limits.


      It is possible to deviate out playing more hands but in the early stages its just all out against the strategy and modell pokerstrategy uses for SnG-play. We want to be able to sit back, wait for other players to knock eachother out and when we have a good hand we sweep in and take some money.

      When we are getting a bit more shorthanded and blinds become big relative the stacks we start playing more aggresive and a bit more loose.
      That can work also but only with some luck on your side. Don't forget that in low limits people will call your IMC move with weaker hands but still put you in danger. So with a shortstack you just take MORE risks. But if you already have a nice stack by taking risks at the early stages you'll just be more confortable going in the bubble. I don't know you but i prefer getting busted after few minutes of play than just before the money. And when i don't get busted I often make it to top 3.
    • z4tz
      z4tz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 2,043
      Originally posted by 1seednoir1
      Originally posted by z4tz
      Talking about a tight image; I realized that in low limits people tend to fear the one with a lot of chips smile . So i deduced that you need to have some chips(double stack) before showing a tight image. I'm saying that because people always want to bust the one with less chips. A way to double your stack is by playing a bit loose in the early stages. Loose for me is playing 109s, J10s, Q10s,QJs carefully... I don't know if a coach will agree with such advices but it works for me in low limits.


      It is possible to deviate out playing more hands but in the early stages its just all out against the strategy and modell pokerstrategy uses for SnG-play. We want to be able to sit back, wait for other players to knock eachother out and when we have a good hand we sweep in and take some money.

      When we are getting a bit more shorthanded and blinds become big relative the stacks we start playing more aggresive and a bit more loose.
      That can work also but only with some luck on your side. Don't forget that in low limits people will call your IMC move with weaker hands but still put you in danger. So with a shortstack you just take MORE risks. But if you already have a nice stack by taking risks at the early stages you'll just be more confortable going in the bubble. I don't know you but i prefer getting busted after few minutes of play than just before the money. And when i don't get busted I often make it to top 3.

      That we are getting called by worse hands or getting better hands to fold. The ICM works quite well at low limit because noone ever heard of it or how it works and almost every time they are to tight and we win in the end either on them beeing eaten by blinds or that they get sick of it and call with the worse hand. Yes of course its a risk to push at any time, even with AA.

      Earlygame playing only solid hands as the starting hand sheet say means that if we go in we have a nice edge in all hands we play which means that we are more likely to double up. Around 40% of the SnGs I have doubled up or close to it when the first people start to become low stacks relative the blinds (less than 13BB) and if I myself is a lowstack I have the advantage of knowing when and what to push which pays of.
    • 1seednoir1
      1seednoir1
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2008 Posts: 1,068
      I Agree with you on certain points...

      but just wanted to know what the Coach think!!!!
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      There are 2 ways to play low limit SnG.
      TAG
      1st way of course, is to stick to the charts and know what you are doing... your BR will go up, slowly, perhaps, but it WILL steadily go up. I call this way taking your fishing pole, your bait and patiently sitting by the pool waiting to catch a big chum, but otherwise staying out of the shark-tank.
      LAG
      2nd way is to do as some have suggested by playing off the SHC with marginal hands, such as suited broadways, Axs, or any pp. You go out early (or must use chart 2 or 3 strategy in chart 1 blinds, and this is risky too) or you have a nice stack to sit on. Once you get the larger stack from a bold play you must go back to the charts (TAG)... otherwise you are simply gambling. I call this way taking your sharp stick, jumping into the sharktank along with the chum, thrusting at the first thing you see and then jumping out and hoping you caught one.
      Both ways make profit, the second way has a much higher variance.