Stop loss in PLO

    • ittapiros
      ittapiros
      Silver
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 27
      Hello!

      Please allow me to use the enormous experience edge the community has on me and ask this IMO pretty important question before something nasty happens.

      In the past few weeks I've started playing PLO10 I think it is very fun, I've been learning & playing every day since. My results so far are way beyond what I have expected and put down as goals thank god. Recently however I had my doubts.

      I've been running above EV no question about it, but I don't really draw any conclusions from my actual winnings. Only my EV winnings. Since I started 6 tabling I've noticed I can pay a bit less attention on each individual table, but can produce a lot more points, actually enough points to maintain Gold status on PS and I think that is pretty important. I started to feel comfortable with the game enough that I felt like a slightly thinner win rate would be justified by playing more hands and earning more points.

      The problem is that a smaller win rate as I have learned gives more room to variance and therefore swings.

      I have developed imo a very very unhealthy thing that is called expectation before every session. Somewhere beyond my mental comprehensiveness I think. I know that the only expectation one should have for himself is to play the best game he can during a session regardless of the results. Still under the surface I might be too motivated and eager, therefore developed the expectations... (x $ on every session / every day.. whatever pretty stupid)

      I was nearing the BR to take a shot on PLO25 since I think I have a decent edge over PLO10 anyway and the sooner I can move up the better so I can play on a limit with a more friendly rake situation.

      Yesterday I had the sickest session yet, very unlucky. With that throw in a little bit of tilt, some poor, undeveloped flop stacking off determination. (my biggest leak oh yeah...) and I'm down 8BI running 6BI under EV in an hour.

      Now I don't want to make this a crying post because that's not what it is meant to be. I know that swings are a part of PLO and a - 8BI session is standard but I realized it has taken a hold on me. I feel very disappointed and my motivation got hit a little bit and I want to avoid this in the future. (I feel like its coming back finally but I want to prevent this in the future, I had a pretty shitty time since.. : S)

      So how do you people battle this? Do you set up a stop loss, maybe 4-5 BI and call it a day? I don't really like that but I will give it a shot it's that what you think. One of my goals is to reach a number of hand / month that requires 2 decent length session / day. Also on 6 tables 4-5 BI can go away fast... Or do you just accept it as part of the game and stop only when it gets to you in form of tilt? Maybe some kind of a more extensive mental approach all together? If you can guide me to some article or video I'de be very greatful.

      Thanks and good luck on the tables!
  • 10 replies
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Hi,

      i actualy talked about at stop loss in one of my vids. And yeah, that's what you should do if you feel loosing 8bi will affect your game. Just take the number of BI you don't mind loosing, and make that your stop-loss counter.

      Like u said, this is not ideal and it shows problems in your mental game (at least that's what mental game coaches will tell you), and i agree with that. However, it's easier to have a stop loss than try to become a mental game giant, so it's definetly something i would suggest.

      You gotta get rid of your expectations tough. You are going to hit a 25bi+ downswing soon enough, and if you can't handle it, you are setting yourself up for doom :)

      Regards,

      Skod
    • ittapiros
      ittapiros
      Silver
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 27
      Thanks for your reply Skod!

      I also think it is best, I'll use stop loss from now on. It is a bit more doable I think than becoming a mental giant.
    • ittapiros
      ittapiros
      Silver
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 27
      I forgot to ask one thing that was on my mind, but I see no reason to create a new thread for it. Do you play every day? Do you think playing 5-6 days and taking a day or two off is better? My friend told me it is generally ill adviced to play every day of every month and I also think my recent minor decline is due to some loss of focus and some auto piloting. Any thoughts? What are your people's practices?
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,649
      Stoploss is a way to prevent damage from your mental game leaks. It won't fix the problem. If you don't deal with the causes, you will have a huge mental game leak forever. No one can give you exact answers, as no one really knows the reasons and effects of your mental game leaks. I strongly advice Tendler's books for you.
    • BradNitt
      BradNitt
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.07.2011 Posts: 29,739
      Originally posted by ittapiros
      I forgot to ask one thing that was on my mind, but I see no reason to create a new thread for it. Do you play every day? Do you think playing 5-6 days and taking a day or two off is better? My friend told me it is generally ill adviced to play every day of every month and I also think my recent minor decline is due to some loss of focus and some auto piloting. Any thoughts? What are your people's practices?
      imo its ur descission. no one can tell u whats best for u and set up a plan how u should Play. For example i know a pokerstars pro who doesnt Play on saturday, others says Weekend are the fishiest tables out there. depends on ur Goals and so on. for me i handle it like stop loss if im focussed and give me an edge im playing if not not no mater how much im up or down. also when im not in the mood for poker im not playing. i think playing 20 days a month almost a game is better then playing everyday c game (for ur winrate and mindset)
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by BradNitt
      Originally posted by ittapiros
      I forgot to ask one thing that was on my mind, but I see no reason to create a new thread for it. Do you play every day? Do you think playing 5-6 days and taking a day or two off is better? My friend told me it is generally ill adviced to play every day of every month and I also think my recent minor decline is due to some loss of focus and some auto piloting. Any thoughts? What are your people's practices?
      imo its ur descission. no one can tell u whats best for u and set up a plan how u should Play. For example i know a pokerstars pro who doesnt Play on saturday, others says Weekend are the fishiest tables out there. depends on ur Goals and so on. for me i handle it like stop loss if im focussed and give me an edge im playing if not not no mater how much im up or down. also when im not in the mood for poker im not playing. i think playing 20 days a month almost a game is better then playing everyday c game (for ur winrate and mindset)
      Cool so I'm not the only one who hates saturdays :D
    • Skodljivec
      Skodljivec
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 5,709
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      Stoploss is a way to prevent damage from your mental game leaks. It won't fix the problem. If you don't deal with the causes, you will have a huge mental game leak forever. No one can give you exact answers, as no one really knows the reasons and effects of your mental game leaks. I strongly advice Tendler's books for you.
      In theory i agree. But if it takes you a long time to master that aspect of your game, while a stop loss prevents your tilt all together, i really prefer the latter.

      It's not so black and white. I still tilt for example, but when i take a day or 2 off after a bad swing, i can play 2 months between a single tilt. Definetly worth it to take the days off.

      Ofc i'm not getting nearly as tilted as i was before. So if you are raging after loosing 2 bi in a row, you definetly need to upgrade your mental game. However, if you only tilt when having a terrible session when nothing works, stop loss is what you are looking for.

      Regards,

      Skod
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,649
      Of course you should use stop loss, if it saves you money. But no one should think that it alone would be enough. While using it to minimize the damage, one should work on the cause to fix the real problem.
    • Yonose
      Yonose
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2012 Posts: 167
      Originally posted by Skodljivec
      Hi,

      i actualy talked about at stop loss in one of my vids. And yeah, that's what you should do if you feel loosing 8bi will affect your game. Just take the number of BI you don't mind loosing, and make that your stop-loss counter.

      Like u said, this is not ideal and it shows problems in your mental game (at least that's what mental game coaches will tell you), and i agree with that. However, it's easier to have a stop loss than try to become a mental game giant, so it's definetly something i would suggest.

      You gotta get rid of your expectations tough. You are going to hit a 25bi+ downswing soon enough, and if you can't handle it, you are setting yourself up for doom :)

      Regards,

      Skod
      +1
    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Silver
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      Ironically after hitting a 18 BI downswing I felt like I am only going to lose more, even though I still sat in at the tables, hoping through sheer willpower and my B game to bounce back. So that alone totally eradicated all possible expectations from my range xD