Where to play besides pokerstars

    • oskrgy
      oskrgy
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2008 Posts: 549
      Hi guys!
      I have been playing on pokerstars for 2 months now and seems like I just cannot win there.
      OVer 50k hand sample I am running 2000bbs below EV and my green line is destined to be below 0.
      To make things worst those losses are making me very tilty that I am making some very -EV moves and thus increasss my losses even more.
      Just played a session where I lost 5bis and have to admit that 2 of those were bad beats the rest was bad play followed by that.
      Whatever opponents have the seerm to improve by river why I am missing my 15 outers constantly and feel like playing outless.
      So I think that sticking to stars doesnt make much sesne to me since all I can get there are beats and some more beats.
      Wonder where else do you tihnk its profitable to play nowdays.

      Here is a screen of my play

      [/IMG]

      chhers
  • 21 replies
    • Benm473
      Benm473
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2011 Posts: 85
      Stay with Stars and work on your mindset. Stars has good traffic and if you are tracked there you will get access to the content here as long as you generate rake.

      Have a look at the session reviews videos and try not to think about the variance you are encountering. This will help you become less concerned about your session results in terms of cash won/loss but more concerned as to the plays you have made.

      I would post hands where you played for a big pot and make sure you include your opponents stats and sample size because that will allow other players to help spot potential leaks in your game.

      I personally have a tonne of leaks and but slowly but surely I am beginning to understand where some of the more fundamental problems are which has just come through experience but also through watching vids/reading articles here.

      I would say not to understimate the importance of mindset leaks and you have identified that you go on tilt quite easily so that's a big one to work on and not playing when you are tilted will save you a lot of money in the long term.
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      Base on your graph, there are indications where it shows that you can be a profitable poker player.

      What is truly getting in your way from becoming one is your mindset.

      Moving to another poker site won't help because your mindset will also travel with you to that site.
    • miropro
      miropro
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2008 Posts: 134
      Hi, it seems we have same problem :)
      I had 3 years long pause from poker, was mediocre SSS player before and when I switched to BSS was quite succesful for a while but thats another story :D
      Now I play on Stars lowest limits possible (0.01/0.02).
      Why?
      Because I go on tilt when I get bad beat and also when I win several BI. Also tilting when tired, excited, sleepy, when I get distracted while playing and so on... :f_mad:
      Thats a mindset problem and I'm not moving away from lowest limits until I find a cure for it.
      And of course, I'm learning. Again. Everything from begining.
      And I dont care if I lose money because fish called my 3bet and got lucky, I pray that he does it again - odds are on my side :s_cool:
      Just stick to lower limits when you run bad, analyse your hands, the ones you win same as ones you lose with.
      Stay calm, shut down PC if you can't and come back after you caught some air.
      And yes, I tried to play on many other sites but I always come back to stars, they have best software and largest traffic.
      Just take advice from Benm473 - watch, learn, analyse.
      And don't lose your head because someone got lucky with 72 :f_biggrin:
    • oskrgy
      oskrgy
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2008 Posts: 549
      thx a lot guy.
      Its not that much about tilting.
      Probably this are mindset issues butI can hardly belive whats happening.
      Like whomeever make mistake of calling massive 3b preflop with small pp vs my AA or KK hits set.
      I slowplayed FH by calling and guy cought bigger FH on river.
      I have QQ flop comes 333 , T : J , r : Q .
      I am betting atw when guy show me A3 on.
      Not to mention all those guys calling with flush draws.
      However I turn it I feel I am playing versus card generator and not players.
      And now is worst than ever.
      However you turn it I end up being sucker .
    • miropro
      miropro
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2008 Posts: 134
      PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      MP: $2.00
      CO: $2.16
      Hero (BTN): $2.01
      SB: $1.41
      BB: $2.15
      UTG: $5.45
      UTG+1: $2.00

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has A:heart: A:spade:

      fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, fold, fold, CO calls $0.12

      Flop: ($0.39, 2 players) 2:club: 5:heart: 7:diamond:
      CO checks, Hero bets $0.20, CO calls $0.20

      Turn: ($0.79, 2 players) 6:heart:
      CO checks, Hero bets $0.76, CO calls $0.76

      River: ($2.31, 2 players) 8:diamond:
      CO checks, Hero checks

      CO shows T:heart: 9:heart: (Straight, Ten High) (Pre 22%, Flop 8%, Turn 25%)
      Hero mucks A:heart: A:spade: (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 78%, Flop 92%, Turn 75%)
      CO wins $2.23


      Happens all the time, no worries ;)

      Just chill, there is no point to play while you are upset.

      About Stars -- choose your tables carefuly.

      If you can't spot a fish on the table then you are the one.
    • Hashkan
      Hashkan
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.08.2011 Posts: 315
      Hey dude.

      Based on ur graph, u seem to be a good player, but something gets in ur way and u start playing bad. That happens to me aswell, when i feel VERY motivated, u can see it on my graph, and when i dont feel well, the graph start to look bad. Its very much about mindset. Think of ur mind as a muscle, u cant start lifting 100kg benchpress at beginning, but SLOWLY and steady u train to get there. Its the same with the mind, u need to train it slowly and at the same time rest so ur mind can grow. When u feel like ur not playing ur best, start watching videos and review sessions etc, that is +EV aswell.

      GL GL GL
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,063
      you can play around with this and see taht its possible:

      [Edited by HollyMichelle]

      Whilst your link doesn't contain anything forbidden, it does contain links to other competitors so I have to remove.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      If not your redline, you would be a winner despite running under EV. :) So you have already a huge spot to work on. If you expect to make money only from hitting big hands and flipping AA and KK, then I have bad news for you :D variance is gonna be a bitch. Not saying you can't make money from only big hands, but that's just not the whole picture of poker.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      His redline is fine. It varies between players, some have positive, some have negative, some break even but as long as it's not losing at 10bb/100+ there's no need to think it's a leak.

      And there are loose regs w negative redlines on SSNL too that crush actually.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      If you have negative redline it means your play is exploitative. :)
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Your sentence doesn't make sense with this word so I assume you meant exploitable instead of exploitative.

      In that case, everyone is exploitable regardless of how their redline looks like since there's no GTO solution found for NLH.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      My apologies, yes I did mean exploitable. Having very busy month, so I might make some mistakes here and there.

      However, if your both lines are positive, means that you are way less exploitable than someone with negative redline. If you are having negative redline means that you fold in spots where you could've made profit or you are forcing yourself into unprofitable situations and then are forced to fold because why did you even enter the hand in the first place? And that is truth. Obviously it is a matter of choice to either play good TAG or weak TAG, or good LAG or weak LAG. Just saying that his "bad run" could've been different if you could spend some time to work on the redline leaks. :)
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      Originally posted by Rihard4a


      However, if your both lines are positive, means that you are way less exploitable than someone with negative redline. If you are having negative redline means that you fold in spots where you could've made profit or you are forcing yourself into unprofitable situations and then are forced to fold because why did you even enter the hand in the first place? And that is truth. Obviously it is a matter of choice to either play good TAG or weak TAG, or good LAG or weak LAG. Just saying that his "bad run" could've been different if you could spend some time to work on the redline leaks. :)
      I agree with this statement 100%.
    • tightfish19
      tightfish19
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2013 Posts: 76
      Originally posted by miropro
      Hi, it seems we have same problem :)
      I had 3 years long pause from poker, was mediocre SSS player before and when I switched to BSS was quite succesful for a while but thats another story :D
      Now I play on Stars lowest limits possible (0.01/0.02).
      Why?
      Because I go on tilt when I get bad beat and also when I win several BI. Also tilting when tired, excited, sleepy, when I get distracted while playing and so on... :f_mad:
      Thats a mindset problem and I'm not moving away from lowest limits until I find a cure for it.
      And of course, I'm learning. Again. Everything from begining.
      And I dont care if I lose money because fish called my 3bet and got lucky, I pray that he does it again - odds are on my side :s_cool:
      Just stick to lower limits when you run bad, analyse your hands, the ones you win same as ones you lose with.
      Stay calm, shut down PC if you can't and come back after you caught some air.
      And yes, I tried to play on many other sites but I always come back to stars, they have best software and largest traffic.
      Just take advice from Benm473 - watch, learn, analyse.
      And don't lose your head because someone got lucky with 72 :f_biggrin:
      Playing NL2 on Stars will tilt even the mentally strongest person.
      Honestly you will go insane. I should know because I do and I am only just hanging onto my sanity.
      The variance is so high and you get sucked out on so often it just does your head in.
      Probably should quit before I do go insane or maybe work more on improving my game. LOL
      Like your attitude to it though.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,063
      since there's no GTO solution found for NLH.


      why is that? everybody is talking about this and it feels that in few years everybodyt will know how to play unexploitable GTO (except who are so lazy to study) and I thought will be much harder, cause you willl not be able exploit regs, but only fish.

      I thougth at high stakes good regs play only gto if they dont see how can they exploit other reg.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by MrMardyBum
      Originally posted by Rihard4a


      However, if your both lines are positive, means that you are way less exploitable than someone with negative redline. If you are having negative redline means that you fold in spots where you could've made profit or you are forcing yourself into unprofitable situations and then are forced to fold because why did you even enter the hand in the first place? And that is truth. Obviously it is a matter of choice to either play good TAG or weak TAG, or good LAG or weak LAG. Just saying that his "bad run" could've been different if you could spend some time to work on the redline leaks. :)
      I agree with this statement 100%.
      You can get both lines positive by bluffcathing too much for example. Your blue line suffers, but if your opponents don't fold often enough either then you still have positive blue line and redline too but hurt your green line. Doesn't rly mean in this case that you are less exploitable.

      Ofc having positive blue and red line can absolutely be good as you say. But for that to happen your opponents have to be making a mistake of folding too much in frequent spots and those spots have to be frequent enough to offset the loss in NSD from folded blinds and rake in NSD pots. (in certain games that's def what's happening) Whether or not that's true in your games I don't know, but just looking at a graph and saying there's a leak can't be correct either.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      since there's no GTO solution found for NLH.


      why is that? everybody is talking about this and it feels that in few years everybodyt will know how to play unexploitable GTO (except who are so lazy to study) and I thought will be much harder, cause you willl not be able exploit regs, but only fish.
      Don't worry about that. LHE is significantly less complex game than NL and computers haven't managed to solve it either. It will be a long time before GTO solution is found for NLHE and even then no human will be capable to learn such solution and apply it on his own.

      At that point the biggest problem will be bots and not humans.

      I thougth at high stakes good regs play only gto if they dont see how can they exploit other reg.
      They play balanced strat which is based on game theory, but it's far from true GTO and is still exploitable.
    • amater0001
      amater0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2011 Posts: 182
      Try PKR. It's the softest.
    • MasochisticDesire
      MasochisticDesire
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2010 Posts: 486
      Originally posted by Rihard4a If you are having negative redline means that you fold in spots where you could've made profit or you are forcing yourself into unprofitable situations and then are forced to fold because why did you even enter the hand in the first place? And that is truth.
      mmm making that more simplistic then it actually is.
      There are plenty of lines that may be correct yet will negatively effect your red line; most commonly at our heros limit - bet, bet ,fold spots.

      Just saying that his "bad run" could've been different if you could spend some time to work on the redline leaks. :)
      In this we agree however.
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